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Author Topic: Opera 10  (Read 8239 times)
Lashiec
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« on: September 01, 2009, 01:50:49 PM »

As announced, Opera Software has released today the final version of Opera 10. Despite the major change in the version number, the list of brand new features is actually not that large, and after looking through the changelog, one might say the Opera team focused its efforts on improving existing features, adding a couple of nice touches here and there, and polishing everything else, something to which some of the new features contribute. After the bittersweet release that, in my opinion, Opera 9.5 came to be, it's nice to see the browser going back to its usual high standards.

Or maybe they just borrowed a page out of Chrome's playbook, who knows...


As expected, Opera Unite didn't make it to this release, and will debut in a future Opera 10.1, along with form autocomplete and extension support ;-). So far, the browser feels great, and while is still early to see if the annoying issue I encountered in 9.5 is fixed (HDD trashing, the rest of the problems remain), the only thing worth griping about is minor cosmetic issues with the skin here and there which, otherwise, is fantastic. Hat off to Mr. Hicks.

Also, a new icon! nontroppo must be happy Grin
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Paul Keith
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 02:32:47 PM »

How much of an improvement do you find it has over version 9?

After reading this review: http://en.onsoftware.com/...mp;akst_action=share-this I'm kind of shocked that the closest new user feature was the tab bar considering the hype around the number 10 at the time it was first announced. (I dropped off checking on Opera News after it seemed 10 was going to take awhile and that most features were backend and tailored for web designers and programming know how people.)

I guess you could include turbo in this but Maxthon 2 used to have a similar feature plus you can just turn all the graphics off a webpage anyway to make it load faster.

Then as the reviewer stated, there's still alot of features not implemented from other browsers. (Well, he only mentioned private only mode.)

Btw I'd upgrade already but I'm too worried of a sudden bug discovered. Opera stable is usually stable but 10 seemed to have a lot of bugs during beta and alpha.

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 03:06:37 PM »

Yay, one of he bugs I found most annoying in opera on linux was fixed in 10!
Let's give this a whirl, see if I can start using opera again Wink
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 05:44:27 PM »

I've been running 10 in parallel wit 9.xx for months now, and had no hesitation in upgrading and moving across to 10 full time now that it has gone 'final'.

So far so good.

As an aside: Today I discovered how to use custom user CSS files to filter objectionable content out of websites - it is not a feature new to Opera 10, but I am thrilled by the control that it gives me to reshape pages as I like.  thumbs up
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 06:11:54 PM »

Ok.. Unfortunately, facebook looks awful in Opera (I don't know why, but it doesn't use the same fonts firefox uses).
Thus.. I'm back to firefox! smiley

ps: I'm using opera in linux, in windows I don't recall having this kind of trouble
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 06:25:29 PM »

Testing for few hours and I must say: it is getting worse but I've made decision long ago that I will check it for few days and say "bye bye".

What is worse:
- quality of tooltip thumbnails (on tabs hover).

What did not change:
1. still hangs on exit (I know I can switch history off to fix it but why would I need a browser without URLs suggestions?)
2. few completely different applications give access violation errors while Opera is running (tested RAM with MemTest and it is OK & no problems w/o Opera),
3. once again I had to change language files (I don't like to see "Synchronisation disabled" label all of the time),
4. once again my searches gained unnecessary crap,
5. no "wbr" HTML tag support (still),
6. deleting personal bar links keeps them in Bookmarks (but hides from PB),
7. some flash movies are not going fullscreen (they fill the page breaking layout completely),
8. final version one day after RC,
9. "Opera Link" does not have an option to set synchronisation priority (i.e. overwrite server's content),
10. some dialogues (i.e. the one which asks "what to do" on startup after closing by killing the process) got enormous size and do not fill my screen at all.

And update did not install XML file which contains the list of spell checker dictionaries. I had to copy it from other PC.

What is better:
- it may be placebo but gives the feeling that pages load quicker.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 07:10:06 PM by fenixproductions » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 06:32:42 PM »

facebook looks awful in Opera (I don't know why, but it doesn't use the same fonts firefox uses).
Thus.. I'm back to firefox! smiley

Took screenshots in Opera 10.0 and FireFox 3.5 and overlaid them to toggle between the two and looks identical to me! (Disclaimer: it is not pixel perfect but at least 98%)

Fonts are the same - same type face, same weight, same spacing, same size... the same!
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 06:53:39 PM »

Ampa: notice I'm working under linux, I didn't have this problem in windows.
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Paul Keith
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 02:31:01 AM »

Thanks fenix. This is indeed sad to hear.

No offense to the people who like Opera but this Opera release reminds me more of Opera: Now we know how to go viral.

The emphasis on turbo for example (plus the many videos of Opera 10 in youtube) seems more like a marketing ploy for new users to actually try and see for themselves that Opera is just as fast as Chrome and Firefox. (without setting Turbo on or maybe with it.)

Then the actual improvement of tab thumbnails seems more like it was another way to make Opera look cooler to the mainstream. (Let's face it, Opera already solved the tab problems with right click + scroll wheel + thumb tooltips.)

The rest seems like they were stability improvements and to satisfy the core users.

I know this is kind of a repeat of my earlier post but I'm actually shocked of the reviews and comments coming out for Opera 10 considering the improvements.

@jgpaiva,

Which bug was that? I currently don't have Linux installed. I hope it's Flash related.

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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 04:18:56 AM »

I really did like to hear about opera finally satisfying its users with the extensions and form auto-complete support. It only took them what, 5 years? Yay! \o/

@Paul Keith: no, it has no relation with flash. It's just opera using the wrong fonts on some sites, I have no idea why.

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 04:54:03 AM »

I got gradually more and more fed up with Opera and remained faithful only because of some nostalgia--I used it since version 3! I decided to give it a final try when version 10 comes out, so I did. In my humble opinion there are no breathtaking improvements, instead they re-introduce the old issue of clearing and slow redrawing some pages, which was fixed long time ago, and there's still a problem with downloading some files with wrong PHP extension, etc.

So, good bye, Opera. For me the winner is Google Chrome, despite I'll be missing some of Opera's minor but nice features.
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Lashiec
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 07:28:50 AM »

How much of an improvement do you find it has over version 9?

Not that much. As I explained in my original post, despite the version change, it feels more like the usual incremental update. Indeed many people early in development felt the new version deserved a .x change instead of the x. it received. And I agree with them as I feel 9.5 was a much more new feature-packed release.

On the other hand, Presto received a major overhaul, and I think they stated somewhere it was the reason behind the 9 -> 10 jump. And it's not that rare to see browsers experiencing these jumps in version number without requiring it. Chrome has been doing it since it was released (it's at version 4 right now, just after a year, and still lacks a ton of things), Firefox did it with versions 1.5 and 2 which, IMO, were disappointing.

The emphasis on turbo for example (plus the many videos of Opera 10 in youtube) seems more like a marketing ploy for new users to actually try and see for themselves that Opera is just as fast as Chrome and Firefox. (without setting Turbo on or maybe with it.)

I haven't tried Turbo (don't need to), but I seriously doubt it can make Opera go any faster, unless you're using a weak connection, which is its intended use (not that Firefox and Chrome are that fast, synthetic benchmarks are one thing, real usage is another, and in any case you're shaving milliseconds, not even seconds anymore). Turbo has its uses, and with the huge success of netbooks in the market, it definitely can help with public Wi-Fi and phone tethering.

Then the actual improvement of tab thumbnails seems more like it was another way to make Opera look cooler to the mainstream. (Let's face it, Opera already solved the tab problems with right click + scroll wheel + thumb tooltips.)

Yup, I deactivated them. I feel Opera has more than enough ways to manage tabs, but in any case, tab thumbnails don't get in the way unless you activate them, and thumbnails were already provided in other parts of the UI, so it couldn't be much of an effort to get in the tab bar (UI work aside).

The rest seems like they were stability improvements and to satisfy the core users.

Yeah. To be fair, the framework to implement many of the features that people are asking about (and, incidentally, are included in other browsers), is pretty much there. Why are not they including them? Beats me.

I know this is kind of a repeat of my earlier post but I'm actually shocked of the reviews and comments coming out for Opera 10 considering the improvements.

Personally, if they redesigned the addressbar to work as it does in the rest of the browsers, with the added bonus of webpage content indexing, it would be enough to label Opera as a true 10 version. The feature is so broken that it really irks me every time I use it.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 07:31:12 AM by Lashiec » Logged
Paul Keith
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 09:55:32 AM »

Quote
Not that much. As I explained in my original post, despite the version change, it feels more like the usual incremental update. Indeed many people early in development felt the new version deserved a .x change instead of the x. it received. And I agree with them as I feel 9.5 was a much more new feature-packed release.

I concur although the plus side of this is that the ui quirks Opera brought in with 9.5 was also downsize.

I still can't get over the fact that Opera now feels like Seamonkey 3.5 (not really in direct reference to Seamonkey since I don't use it but to Firefox) when the whole default keyboard settings and look of Opera just went downhill. My biggest complaint though remains how there is no quick old keyboard set-up considering how this is one of the things exclusive to Opera that no other browser has. (It's not like it wouldn't be impressive to the newbie to be able to quickly change Opera to 7.5, 8, 9, 9.5 ui to highlight the evolution of the browser. I'm still waiting when one day Opera would just integrate this into the official browser. http://www.howtocreate.co...aStuff/otherBrowsers.html)

Quote
On the other hand, Presto received a major overhaul, and I think they stated somewhere it was the reason behind the 9 -> 10 jump. And it's not that rare to see browsers experiencing these jumps in version number without requiring it. Chrome has been doing it since it was released (it's at version 4 right now, just after a year, and still lacks a ton of things), Firefox did it with versions 1.5 and 2 which, IMO, were disappointing.

Well if you even factored this, Peregrine hype-wise was supposed to blow Chrome away and further separate the gap between Firefox and Opera so when even users and marketing people don't talk about it at launch, it seems to fail more.

Quote
I haven't tried Turbo (don't need to), but I seriously doubt it can make Opera go any faster, unless you're using a weak connection, which is its intended use (not that Firefox and Chrome are that fast, synthetic benchmarks are one thing, real usage is another, and in any case you're shaving milliseconds, not even seconds anymore). Turbo has its uses, and with the huge success of netbooks in the market, it definitely can help with public Wi-Fi and phone tethering.

True. I was referring more to the mainstream perception of it. I think with Chrome, Google wowed alot of potential users to the perception of a speedy browser. I thought this was Opera's way of marketing themselves aggressively towards that perception. Just look at the main Opera page and promotional videos. It doesn't scream "We're looking out for third world countries, optimizing for netbooks and making it more accessible for public wi-fi." It's literally Opera 10 Turbo. (As if the feature completely re-innovated the browser and is on par with what Opera did with tabs, speed dials and full featured lightweightedness.)

Quote
Personally, if they redesigned the addressbar to work as it does in the rest of the browsers, with the added bonus of webpage content indexing, it would be enough to label Opera as a true 10 version. The feature is so broken that it really irks me every time I use it.

I haven't really been paying attention to all the addressbar/smartbar innovations. Could you explain what's wrong with opera's current way of doing it? I wasn't aware there was any major issues with Opera's address bar. (Although I know of Opera implementing it to be more like history cache meets address bar. I just didn't think there was any big feature within it's implementation that warranted a version number.)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 09:57:15 AM by Paul Keith » Logged

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zridling
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 08:59:54 PM »

The Linux version looks and runs great. I always pull a 'Enable JavaScript' checkbox to the address bar anyway to turn off graphics (more sites are going NUTS with flash and visually loud animations). I also really like how you can save the same bookmarks, keyboard shortcuts, and other settings in one OS and bring them to another without having to re-customize everything.
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 09:18:59 PM »

I put it on and found it broke my utility that encrypted the Wand form fill info when not in use.  I wasted about 1/2 hour trying to figure out where they stick the info, then put 9.64 back on.  I don't use it often enough to mess with it.  Mainly I use it as convenience when buying something online.  I Firefox until I get to the shopping cart then open that page in Opera to fill in all the address info etc..  If I don't have that, then I have no reason to use it.

Hmm, oh yeah, that and playing samples on AllMusic.com without the need to mess with a media plugin.  Guess I'll stay with 9.x for awhile longer.
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 04:42:55 AM »

Personally, if they redesigned the addressbar to work as it does in the rest of the browsers, with the added bonus of webpage content indexing, it would be enough to label Opera as a true 10 version. The feature is so broken that it really irks me every time I use it.
This feature was broken from the beggining. I NEVER could find a page I previously visited by typing keywords from it. Actually, to be fair, I didn't even understand what information does the address bar save/search.

The Linux version looks and runs great.
See screenshot below. Opera running on the same machine as firefox, decides to render pages with fonts that look like crap.
(opera is on  the right)
The font used by opera is smaller, taller and with less space between letters. I can't read it, at the distance I am from the screen.
Oh, and I just noticed that 'Comment' isn't on the same horizontal line as the other links, for some reason.



To be fair, the only reason this nags me is because I really like opera. But I see no reason for them to make these mistakes.
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 07:07:58 AM »

I still can't get over the fact that Opera now feels like Seamonkey 3.5 (not really in direct reference to Seamonkey since I don't use it but to Firefox) when the whole default keyboard settings and look of Opera just went downhill. My biggest complaint though remains how there is no quick old keyboard set-up considering how this is one of the things exclusive to Opera that no other browser has.

There's a profile that reverts keyboard shortcuts to the setup used in Opera 9.2. Dunno if that helps. There's also another option to reactivate single key shortcuts ('1' and '2' FTW).

Quote
I haven't really been paying attention to all the addressbar/smartbar innovations. Could you explain what's wrong with opera's current way of doing it? I wasn't aware there was any major issues with Opera's address bar. (Although I know of Opera implementing it to be more like history cache meets address bar. I just didn't think there was any big feature within it's implementation that warranted a version number.)

As jgpaiva says above, it basically doesn't work. Or more precisely, at least in my case, it works when it feels like it. There are several things wrong with the implementation, which I explained a while ago. As I pointed in my original post in this thread, except for HDD trashing (so far, it's a long way to fill the entire history database as I have it configured), every other problem with the address bar remains (the rest of the problems mentioned in the last part are fixed).
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 01:29:11 PM »

I became disillusioned with Opera (user since v. 5) when I requested a feature (keep formatting when pasting) for several years and it never got implemented. Mind you, not that it was hard: every other browser on earth but maybe text based ones have it smiley

Honestly, they are even worse than apple in their arrogance and lack of attention to user requests.
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2009, 01:36:52 PM »

2urlwolf
Add to your complains something what is there for ages: if you select text, copy and paste into text editor, in most of the cases, you will have additional spaces added to the end of each line.
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2009, 03:21:00 PM »

I became disillusioned with Opera (user since v. 5) when I requested a feature (keep formatting when pasting) for several years and it never got implemented. Mind you, not that it was hard: every other browser on earth but maybe text based ones have it smiley

Honestly, they are even worse than apple in their arrogance and lack of attention to user requests.

One of the things that put me off Opera after using Firefox for awhile was no AutoCopy.  Tough enough to avoid Carpal Tunnel Syndrome without having to triple click the mouse to copy a line to the clipboard.  When I suggested an AutoCopy type feature it was treated like some sort of blasphemy.  I mean, get real!!!

Granted one of the things that felt weird about Linux and XWindows was auto copy when highlighting with the mouse, and single clicking instead of double in some environments.  But as long as you can enable/disable it, what's the big deal?

« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 03:22:33 PM by MilesAhead » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2009, 01:09:14 AM »

Quote
There's a profile that reverts keyboard shortcuts to the setup used in Opera 9.2. Dunno if that helps. There's also another option to reactivate single key shortcuts ('1' and '2' FTW).

No, it doesn't help at all especially because the veterans would have already created their own shortcuts file.

What it doesn't is simply hide Opera's innovation to the new user even further and turns it into Firefox without extensions.

Quote
As jgpaiva says above, it basically doesn't work. Or more precisely, at least in my case, it works when it feels like it. There are several things wrong with the implementation, which I explained a while ago. As I pointed in my original post in this thread, except for HDD trashing (so far, it's a long way to fill the entire history database as I have it configured), every other problem with the address bar remains (the rest of the problems mentioned in the last part are fixed).

Oh, I probably miss that because I don't actually need it. I don't really bother with the results it chucks out. Same for Firefox's Smart Bar.

Quote
When I suggested an AutoCopy type feature it was treated like some sort of blasphemy.  I mean, get real!!!

Maybe you just attracted the wrong crowd. True, many there find this feature annoying. Even I, who originally switched to firefox because of this ended up preferring the shortcut ctrl + b for paste and go than having autocopy which 9 times out of 10, I end up mistakenly copying a highlight and I only often need with urls anyway.

Quote
Granted one of the things that felt weird about Linux and XWindows was auto copy when highlighting with the mouse, and single clicking instead of double in some environments.  But as long as you can enable/disable it, what's the big deal?

Mostly market demand.

By implementing it, does it attract their core users? Not so much. Does it attract new users? Again, not so much because many would get your same frustration when it's turned on and it would basically be hidden under the other hidden gems of Opera.

Quote
Honestly, they are even worse than apple in their arrogance and lack of attention to user requests.

I doubt it. Apple's market is selling fluff for lots.

Opera actually has been pioneering the browser up until recently. They are just following a typical browser attitude. Compare this to Mozilla who already have extensions they just need turned into a native feature and it doesn't compare.

Most browser developers seem to have this stigma. Flock will not touch anything that's not popular. (even though they claim they are a Web 2.0 based browser) K-meleon despite being open sourced hasn't reached Firefox level. Seamonkey equally has no massive adaptation of extensions. Maxthon too has very little improvement. IE? Konqueror? Google Chrome? Iron? Text based browsers?


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« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2009, 10:39:23 AM »

Opera is my standard browser, and I don't really miss extensions.

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« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2009, 02:38:10 PM »

Opera is my standard browser, and I don't really miss extensions.


Do you happen to know if it still keeps Form Fill personal info in clear text? I'm just curious if they at least encrypt it now or if they just shuffled it into another file.

edit: I just updated to 10 and they just shuffle the [Personal Info] section of opera6.ini to operaprefs.ini.  The info is there in clear text.  Looks like I have to update my obfuscator to ask if the Opera is v. 10 or later. smiley
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 05:10:18 PM by MilesAhead » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2009, 05:09:15 PM »

Opera is my standard browser, and I don't really miss extensions.


Do you happen to know if it still keeps Form Fill personal info in clear text? I'm just curious if they at least encrypt it now or if they just shuffled it into another file.


Absolutely no idea, don't use the feature - although there's nothing particularly sensitive about my name, address, phone number etc. since they are in clear on my business cards, stationery etc. What fields you can save for the form is not a lot, so I never bothered.

As for the passwords they must be at least vaguely encrypted, a file content search produced nothing - although I dont have my really key passwords in there (not due to issus of encryption, more the fear of someone stealing the pc and the browser nicely volunteering the passwords. Convenience vs Security)
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« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2009, 05:12:03 PM »

I just don't like the idea of my address phone etc. being in clear text in a known location.  Makes it too easy for fishing.  If browser = Opera then goto operprefs.ini. That's making it way too easy.
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