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Author Topic: SC: Discussion of Scanning Functions  (Read 10175 times)
lanux128
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« on: July 26, 2009, 07:58:07 AM »

SC's reinvention as a scanning tool is going to be a great addition. i can feel it.. thumbs up
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longrun
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 05:12:44 PM »

Thank you for adding the scanning options. I've only played with them briefly but have a few comments:

If Deskew text is checked in the options and then Quick Auto Straighten Image is clicked the result changes (the latter image seems to be skewed).

SC seems to use WIA instead of TWAIN as its initial default. On my main scanner at least, WIA has limited functionality. I always use TWAIN. Do most people use WIA? If not this might be confusing. Once TWAIN is selected it then stays as the default.

In an attempt to test what would happen if WIA was selected and there was no WIA driver I unplugged my scanner with SC running. This deleted this scanner (and I think another one) from the list of options, and it's not there even after a reboot. Fortunately the scanner is still installed in my document imaging program (or I would not be happy), but apparently I will have to reinstall the scanner for it to work in SC. In my document imaging program I can plug and unplug my scanner at will without any problems, though I try to remember to close the program first. (I use a notebook and unplug my scanner often. I also use more than one scanner, which is uncommon I'm sure.)

The tooltip for the third button says Adjuse Scanner Options. No mouser software would be complete without the obligatory misspelling.

It would be useful to have the option of automatically saving scans in a different folder than the one used for screenshots.

How hard would it be to implement saving to PDF? I can use other software to do this or print to PDF, but if I'm going to use SC as a primary scanning option it would be useful.

I'd like a keyboard shortcut for scanning. F6 would be my choice, but that's only because I'm probably the only person on planet Earth still using the late, lamented FileABC document imaging program. (Oh, what I would give for universal keyboard shortcuts.)

Do I understand correctly that Acquire image from scanner (Dialog toggled) does the opposite of whatever is selected in the scanning options? That is, if Show and use native scanner dialog is selected, then the dialog will not be selected when using Dialog toggled? That had (or perhaps has) me confused. It's a useful option but there's got to be a better way of doing and explaining it. If you're going to show both options, why have a toggle at all instead of having one scan button be for using the TWAIN/WIA dialog and one button not? Alternatively, in scanner options have the options to show/not show a button for Scan with TWAIN/WIA dialog and show/not show a button for Scan w/o TWAIN/WIA dialog. Then for people who always use or don't use the dialog there'd be only one scan button. Or have one scan button and use a keyboard shortcut to toggle the dialog on and off.

I'll experiment more as time permits.
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mouser
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 05:19:29 PM »

Quote
In an attempt to test what would happen if WIA was selected and there was no WIA driver I unplugged my scanner with SC running. This deleted this scanner (and I think another one) from the list of options, and it's not there even after a reboot. Fortunately the scanner is still installed in my document imaging program (or I would not be happy), but apparently I will have to reinstall the scanner for it to work in SC.

not true -- the way SC works is it does NOT re-query the list of available scanners until you hit scan, and it doesnt update the options list until you re-select from the TWAIN/WIA dropdown.

this is on purpose but might be a bit confusing.

the point of it is specifically to keep SC from clearing your scanner selection even if you unplug or turn off your scanner.  the way it is now SC will remember your scanner selection even when no scanner is selected.

only when you tell it to rediscover the list of available scanners by (re)choosing TWAIN/WIA will it re-fill the list with those it can find.
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mouser
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 05:20:39 PM »

Quote
I'd like a keyboard shortcut for scanning.
already exists, go into hotkey options and set one.

Quote
Do I understand correctly that Acquire image from scanner (Dialog toggled) does the opposite of whatever is selected in the scanning options? That is, if Show and use native scanner dialog is selected, then the dialog will not be selected when using Dialog toggled? That had (or perhaps has) me confused.
you have it right; i know its a bit confusing, but you do have it right.
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mouser
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 05:22:33 PM »

Quote
How hard would it be to implement saving to PDF? I can use other software to do this or print to PDF, but if I'm going to use SC as a primary scanning option it would be useful.

you can already do a Save As and save a screenshot as PDF.
since it seems like such a common thing people would want to do, i was thinking of adding a button to the scanner toolbar to say Save as PDF; i was also thinking of making it so you could select multiple images from the thumbnail panel and it would save them all to one pdf multi-page document.
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longrun
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2009, 05:46:56 PM »

Quote
you can already do a Save As and save a screenshot as PDF.
since it seems like such a common thing people would want to do, i was thinking of adding a button to the scanner toolbar to say Save as PDF; i was also thinking of making it so you could select multiple images from the thumbnail panel and it would save them all to one pdf multi-page document.
The button might be nice but PDF should definitely be added to the option in Override Screenshot File Format.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 07:58:05 PM by longrun » Logged
longrun
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2009, 06:00:05 PM »

Quote
not true -- the way SC works is it does NOT re-query the list of available scanners until you hit scan, and it doesnt update the options list until you re-select from the TWAIN/WIA dropdown.
My apologies. Apparently I didn't realize that the scanner list changed depending on whether TWAIN or WIA was selected.

Quote
I'd like a keyboard shortcut for scanning.
already exists, go into hotkey options and set one.
Again, my apologies.

Quote
Do I understand correctly that Acquire image from scanner (Dialog toggled) does the opposite of whatever is selected in the scanning options? That is, if Show and use native scanner dialog is selected, then the dialog will not be selected when using Dialog toggled? That had (or perhaps has) me confused.

you have it right; i know its a bit confusing, but you do have it right.
Since I have it right I guess I don't understand why you don't either
(a)have two buttons/menu options: Scan directly from SC and Scan using TWAIN/WIA (and say Scan rather than the verbose Acquire image from scanner; I thought Acquire technically meant scan using TWAIN).
(b)one Scan button with hotkey toggle.
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mouser
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 06:09:12 PM »

i understand the confusion over the weird way i did the 2 toolbar scan buttons, and i agree it's a bit confusing.

i'll tell you why i did it that way:
there are several places where you can say what should trigger scanning -- for example with a hotkey, and when pressing the physical scanner button.
rather than try to have multiple options there where you say what kind of scan to perform on those triggers (with or without dialog), i decided it would be easier to let user configure their default way of scanning (with dialog or without), and that these triggers would always do that.  then on the occasional times you want to do the other, you have that additional menu item/toolbarbutton.

anyway, we can revisit it later if it stays a problem.
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longrun
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2009, 06:40:41 PM »

Changing the subject, I've long thought that SC might be useful to a wider range of people if installation offered the choice between a basic and advanced interface. The former would just have choices like selected region, entire workspace, etc. SC is fabulous but most of the people I deal with would find it completely overwhelming. There are of course programs that offer only these limited options but I imagine some people discover SC and find it too difficult to use.
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mouser
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2009, 06:47:20 PM »

Quote
PDF should definitely be added to the option in Override Screenshot File Format.

i was going to do that but ran into a small problem.
SC relies on the windows shell to show thumbnails of screenshots in the left side panel.

for many (most?all?) people (does it require a special extension?), the windows shell will not show a thumbnail image of a pdf file.  that means that if SC saved your scan as a pdf, you wouldn't actually see a preview of it in the left sidebar, just a generic adobe icon.

worse, once saved as PDF, SC cannot re-open a previously saved PDF and edit it (such a thing might be possible to add eventually but not without much work).

so in short, using PDF as the default image file format for scans is not something SC can do currently.

the best i can do in the sort term is making it really easy to save a copy of an image in PDF form, or to save a collection of images as a pdf multi-page document.
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mouser
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 06:53:07 PM »

Quote
There are of course programs that offer only these limited options but I imagine some people discover SC and find it too difficult to use.

i have another program (URL Snooper) which has a switchable advanced vs. simple interface, and that is useful in keeping it from overwhelming new or light users.

but i think you've hit on the key point here when you mention "other programs".  there are lots of other screenshot programs designed for novice and light users.  Not that SC is hard to use once you understand the concepts, but some people may find it unintuitive and there are other screenshot tools that may just click with them better.

There are some screenshot tools that are just much more gentle all around, and take a wizard like approach of guiding users through the common things they will want to do.

So in short, while i think i could make a simpler mode that was a little bit easier to use and less daunting, i don't think i could substantially change the character of the program enough to make a real difference.
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longrun
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 07:07:27 PM »

Quote
i was going to do that but ran into a small problem.
SC relies on the windows shell to show thumbnails of screenshots in the left side panel.

for many (most?all?) people (does it require a special extension?), the windows shell will not show a thumbnail image of a pdf file.  that means that if SC saved your scan as a pdf, you wouldn't actually see a preview of it in the left sidebar, just a generic adobe icon.

worse, once saved as PDF, SC cannot re-open a previously saved PDF and edit it (such a thing might be possible to add eventually but not without much work).

so in short, using PDF as the default image file format for scans is not something SC can do currently.

the best i can do in the sort term is making it really easy to save a copy of an image in PDF form, or to save a collection of images as a pdf multi-page document.

I would be happy to have an Adobe icon and non-openable screenshot if PDF could be a default scan format. Or when you select PDF as the file type could SC say "Note: No screenshot will appear in the panel"?

I would find it tremendously useful in relying on SC as an all-purpose program if PDF could be a default scan type and scans could be saved to a different folder. My screenshots and PDF scans have entirely different purposes. I often scan to PDF for permanent storage and don't even look at the scan. I don't want to have a PDF folder that's also littered with temporary screenshots that I forgot to delete.

Not to beat a dead horse, but returning to the two scan buttons: I understand your reasoning. How about two buttons, the first saying Scan and the second one of those buttons that toggles between being highlighted and not, with the choices of TWAIN/WIA on or off? This would be much less confusing and would still accomplish your objective of having the scan button and scan hotkey do the same thing.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 08:01:36 PM by longrun » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 07:19:10 PM »

can you explain the idea of TWAIN/VIA on or off being in toolbar button?
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longrun
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 07:41:46 PM »

Quote
can you explain the idea of TWAIN/WIA on or off being in toolbar button?

Sorry if I was unclear and very sorry if I'm haranguing you to death on scanning (well, you did ask for comments).

Right now there are two buttons. The first is Acquire Image from Scanner, which I would simply call Scan. The second button does the opposite of whether Show and use native scanner dialog is chosen in scanner options. I'm proposing that this button instead toggle between non-highlighted (Do not use scanner's TWAIN/WIA interface) and highlighted (Use scanner's TWAIN/WIA interface). Or you could call them "Scan directly into SC" and "Use scanner's interface" or something similar. If this were done the option in scanner options could be deleted.

Adding a button to the scanner toolbar to say Save as PDF would work for me (though it would add a step) but I would absolutely love the option to save to a different folder. I realize, however, that I may be the only person who would want to do this.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 08:02:33 PM by longrun » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2009, 07:57:05 PM »

i think maybe ill split the scan discussion to a different thread.
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mouser
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2009, 08:00:21 PM »

i think the idea of saving a pdf to a different directory would make even more sense since that would remove the confusion of why the file couldnt be re-opened and edited by SC.

let me start by adding a button for it, and then we can talk about tweaking the feature.
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longrun
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2009, 08:03:47 PM »

i think the idea of saving a pdf to a different directory would make even more sense since that would remove the confusion of why the file couldnt be re-opened and edited by SC.

let me start by adding a button for it, and then we can talk about tweaking the feature.
Great!
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2009, 08:06:22 PM »

i was also thinking of making it so you could select multiple images from the thumbnail panel and it would save them all to one pdf multi-page document.
That's a good idea!
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Chris
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 03:47:58 AM »

i was also thinking of making it so you could select multiple images from the thumbnail panel and it would save them all to one pdf multi-page document.
That's a good idea!

great!
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Tom
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2009, 05:11:44 AM »

Video demonstrating some of the new scanner functions:
http://www.donationcoder....sts/dc/3ds/sc13/sc13.html
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tomos
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2009, 11:13:05 AM »

havent used this since it was being tested

Scanning a few pages today:

1) I missed advanced options on saving as PDF - it saved a 100dpi image as a 2 MB file - (I think it didnt compress the image?) - would be great if I could regulate that on saving (or in options)
2) is there any capability to change the dpi of an image in SC? I see resize but occasionally might want to simply change resolution [very much an icing request smiley]
3) option to simply 'save image as' would be nice - nearest option is 'save copy as' which eventually will involve spring cleaning
4) when I scan I dont see any progress window - I see you have one in screenshot - scratch that: it works at TWAIN setting - I get a flash of my scanner software logo, then it comes up as normal (Not using 'native scanner dialog')


Everything (auto-rotate/sharpen/WB) working very nicely smiley -
for this run the large PDF's drove me away though Sad
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Tom
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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2009, 11:20:23 AM »

  • #2 change dpi -- yes, see "SpecialFx -> Adjust Color Depth and DPI"
  • #3 save as -- in SC "save copy as" does what all programs do when you choose "save as", it makes a copy.  do you mean you want to rename it? if so you can just change the file name in the bottom panel and hit enter and it will be renamed.  in face you can change the file format at the same time simply by specifying an extension there like .jpg, .gif, etc.  ps. for scans a .jpg is much much smaller file size than png.

as for #1 compression on PDF save, i will look into it asap; i will also be adding a quick saveas pdf button on scanner toolbar.

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tomos
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2009, 12:12:02 PM »

#2 - great
#3 - 'save as' -  what I understood from SC "save copy as" is that it will save in regular folder anyway & you have the option to save a copy elsewhere (or save copy in same folder). Say I scan into Pshop, I can save as -> folder of choice, there's only one copy (okay, there may be a temp one in temp folder as well).  Wasnt any big deal, but it would be nice to simply save scans elsewhere in folder of choice - me, I usually save them in a different folder each time I'm doing a batch of scans but obviously moving them around isnt a problem smiley

Another one:-
#5 - it would be great if Ctrl+O would show whole page (i.e. Auto-fit) if nothing is selected. (I know Crt+F is 'Fit-View' but this shows image much smaller than 'Auto-fit')
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Tom
lanux128
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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2009, 05:57:49 PM »

i hadn't noticed #1 that much due to saving the PDFs via print drivers such as NovaPDF but item 3 gives me the same confusion, is it a copy of the existing file before or after the change. so much so that i normally resort to "Save + New Version (auto-name)" with its Control+Shift+S hotkey. smiley

to add to tomos' suggestions - in view of the management of the scanned documents, perhaps the "MoveTo" menu can be changed into "CopyTo" as according to the users choice. this is because i copy more than i move (always need a backup copy somewhere).
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tomos
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« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2009, 04:34:16 PM »

doing a bunch of PDFs as Lanux suggested - using print to PDF driver.

Mouser - any chance you could give 'Print screenshot' a shortcut?
many thanks for all the work on this and I hope I dont come across as too demanding - sometimes I think I get carried on the 'legality' betas/development gives to the user to being demanding and critical.

Speaking of which embarassed cheesy
'Print screenshot' remembers the margin numbers but always reverts to Inches - so if I set Margins to 2 cm all round, the next print has them at 2 inches

edit/ also wanted to say it's a joy to use - this is so nice and clean but has all the important options covered thumbs up

« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 04:35:49 PM by tomos » Logged

Tom
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