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Author Topic: XYplorer 8.00 released with DUAL PANES (!)  (Read 12899 times)
rjbull
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« on: June 16, 2009, 03:43:05 AM »

Quote
XYplorer 8.00 has been released on 15-Jun-2009. Here's a quick introduction to the main new features:

1) Dual Pane
  Dual Pane file management is synonymous with productivity and ease of use. It combines comfort, speed, and power in the most natural way, namely by letting you look at the contents of two folders side by side.
  Both panes are tabbed, and can be arranged vertically or horizontally, or shown individually as single panes.

2) Overlong filenames supported.
  All fundamental file operations now work with extremely long filenames (longer than 260 characters): Rename, Copy, Move, Delete, Preview, Thumbnails, Backup, Properties, Time Stamp, Attributes Stamp, etc.
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urlwolf
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 04:23:23 AM »

Is it just me, or is the listing of long file list very slow?
I can estimate about 1 sec per 500 files.
Heck, even a few dozens produce a perceptible lag.
It's like using 'back' button on IE after using Opera for a while. The delay is tiny, but it bothers me a lot...
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DonL
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 05:04:48 AM »

Is it just me, or is the listing of long file list very slow?
Hmm, complaints about speed is the last thing I get. XY is usually extremely fast. No idea what's going wrong at your end.
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urlwolf
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 06:28:19 AM »

Hi DonL,

Thanks for answering. This is a desktop machine, with fast disks, so I'm not usre either. The only different thing is that this is windows server 2008 64-bit.
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DonL
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 06:33:07 AM »

Hi DonL,

Thanks for answering. This is a desktop machine, with fast disks, so I'm not usre either. The only different thing is that this is windows server 2008 64-bit.
If you happen to do your browsing on a (mapped or UNC) network drive then the delay can be explained and fixed by changing some configuration stuff -- ask in the user forum.

On local disks it should be fast.
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 06:53:22 AM »

2urlwolf
I can confirm lags.

Sometimes XY seems to freeze when I am trying to scroll long files list. Probably due to retrieving files icons. It also stops responding when I click on any video file having preview panel ON. I know it has to load it but freezing whole XY?

I still find it strange not to see as many thumbnails as I want to. I.e. PDN files (from Paint.NET) can be seen in Explorer, Total Commander and many other file managers because they can use IShellFolder for getting the thumbnail. Even my Comparer does it but XY has problems.

Although I find it not so bad as I've expected. There are differences between XY and TC for sure but if I've never know Total… who knows Wink
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 06:57:46 AM by fenixproductions » Logged

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JoTo
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 07:11:27 AM »

WOW!  Cool
Thanks rjbull for pointing that out!

Have to run to get it now...  cheesy

CU
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DonL
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 07:17:06 AM »

I still find it strange not to see as many thumbnails as I want to. I.e. PDN files (from Paint.NET) can be seen in Explorer...
Nobody ever asked for PDN files. The place for bug reports and wishes is the XY User Forum... smiley
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 07:39:21 AM »

Nobody ever asked for PDN files. The place for bug reports and wishes is the XY User Forum... smiley

1st: I'ts not about PDN support at all. This is only the example. XY should support getting thumbnails from explorer for all files. Instead of that: I have the feeling that it uses its own built in preview only.

2nd: I am not XY user and I will never be. Why should I post anything on their forum then?

I know it might be "being lazy" thing but I've tested hundreds of applications in the past. Each one of them had some flows. Should I create accounts for all of them somewhere? I find it not likely thing to do. I would rather take such steps only for the software I use the most. XY does not fall into such gap.

On the other hand: it is impossible to write PDN files preview. AFAIK these files are .NET serialized XML so the only ways to view their thumbnails are either to get XY to work with .NET or to get data from Explorer (using iShellFolder with IExtractImage interface). I think Explorer part is easier for XY (since it seems to be written with MS Visual Basic 5).

Last thing to say is that I believe that some XY board members are here too so they might write something on my behalf smiley
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 09:49:51 AM »

Given the tireless routine of updates and improvements to XYplorer, it's a very good bet that if there are rough places soon they will be made plain.
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Chris
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 09:59:01 AM »

I myself have never posted wishes or bugs in the XYplorer in the user forum over there because I have seen what happens when someone suggests something that upsets the established way of doing things. I see people post suggestions & I get mental images of the poster being holed up in Frankenstein's castle as the villagers, errr...other forum users storm the castle with torches and pitchforks.

And, Don, if you are reading this, tags.dat are not a replacement for descript.ion files. I can elaborate more on that point here if you'd like, but people over in your forum start foaming at the mouth every time someone brings the point up over there.

(And this is not a slam against Don, his program, his forum, or his users. They just get a little over-enthusiastic from time to time.)
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 11:04:09 AM »

2Innuendo
I am browsing their board right now and must say that you're right:

Quote from: XY admin
descript.ion is crap compared to tag.dat.
Wink
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tomos
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 11:41:49 AM »

the man is not being given much of a chance to respond neutrally in 'neutral' territory
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Tom
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 12:35:36 PM »

I can elaborate more on that point here if you'd like, but people over in your forum start foaming at the mouth every time someone brings the point up over there.
I only see 4 threads that mention descript.ion over there and none of them exhibit said users. In fact the most negative thing about it is that Don finds it "crap compared to tags.dat."  We've gotten in debates over there before, but usually things remain rather civil. (DP aside.)

2nd: I am not XY user and I will never be. Why should I post anything on their forum then?
Well then it seems silly to complain that XY doesn't support it, does it not?  If the desire for such a feature is so small that no one wants to bring it up on the XY forums, how can anyone expect that feature gets implemented?  It's a bit backwards to think that Don (who is the only person behind XY) should scour the internet looking for features to implement for people who "will never be" XY users, when he already has wishes of his own and his community on his to-do list.
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 12:56:12 PM »

Well then it seems silly to complain that XY doesn't support it, does it not?  If the desire for such a feature is so small that no one wants to bring it up on the XY forums, how can anyone expect that feature gets implemented?  It's a bit backwards to think that Don (who is the only person behind XY) should scour the Internet looking for features to implement for people who "will never be" XY users, when he already has wishes of his own and his community on his to-do list.
Although I think Explorer thumbnails are not small feature I understand that it will not be implemented without an effort from my side to request it. I don't want to do it because XY is not "my" filemanager but does it mean I can't write about what makes it impossible for me to switch? Can't I point out missing features?

It might be stupid of me whining about XY here but I don't think it's the best way to post on all boards in the Internet for each software I found bad for me. I know I can do it but in the same way each software reviewer should do the same. Have you ever seen any software comparison charts? In perfect world, those should produce hundreds of posts across the support forums. Little silly approach isn't it?

I could miss something but since when the only opinions that matter are those from software boards members or long time users?

On the other hand: I believe that Dan knows about Explorer thumbnails. For me this was the simplest thing that came to my mind when I wanted to have thumbnails preview for some files. Own graphic library was the second. IMHO Don is 100x times better developper than me so it's rather impossible to think that he missed that.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 01:12:36 PM by fenixproductions » Logged

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Jibz
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2009, 04:01:41 PM »

descript.ion files .. now that brings back memories of the BBS days .. that has to be the granddaddy of metadata Grin.
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Innuendo
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2009, 06:15:37 PM »

First of all, I want this to be a neutral place to comment. However, looking at the XYplorer forum I have to apologize to all of the XYplorer users as they were not the ones posting the negative comments. Those comments seem to be only posted by the admin.

Quote from: admin
I'm not convinced of the concept of descript.ion files. It looks like a bureaucratic overhead to me, which leads to more problems than solutions.
And, the sheer fact that not every program supports it reduces its usefulness considerably, doesn't it?

Bureaucratic overhead? More problems than solutions? If this were the case the file format would have died out back in 1993 instead of having lived on so long.

Quote from: admin
I have a lot of experience with work organisation, and I found more often than not that adding another level of description leads to more problems, more work, more waste of time.

More work? More waste of time? This person has no idea how descript.ion files can be  utilized. I cannot even put into words how much time has been saved or my organization helped by having descript.ion files at my disposal.

Quote from: admin
Sorry, but this topic is through. TrackerV3 is for people who know the art of naming files.

Sorry, but descript.ion files, at least the way I use them, have nothing in the world at all with the art of naming files.

Quote from: admin
As author I see it as my responsibility to make some decisions for the user. This may seem arrogant, but this arrogance is inherent in any authorship, isn't it?

Yes, make decisions, but make informed decisions, please. I use descript.ion files for automation and tracking purposes not for storing what I should have named the file in the first place.

Why am I typing all this? I have a sincere desire to see XYplorer improve. Yes, I love Total Commander, but if something else surpasses its usability I can see myself one day replacing it or at the very least using the two side-by-side.

And regarding explorer thumbnails, I love them and have them turned on in Total Commander, but I do realize that they do slow the file listings down & Don has stated he wants to keep XYplorer as fast as possible so I can understand why he would have omitted the feature in the name of speed.
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2009, 06:34:59 PM »

And regarding explorer thumbnails, I love them and have them turned on in Total Commander, but I do realize that they do slow the file listings down & Don has stated he wants to keep XYplorer as fast as possible so I can understand why he would have omitted the feature in the name of speed.
But what is the difference between "big icons" and "thumbnails" views then? I have always thought that if you choose thumbs you accept slowdown because speed is less important than preview in such case. There is also no need for writing own graphic libraries or specific files handling methods. Just use what operating system already has. Even explorer.exe does so.

I will end my rant saying that I had good laugh reading about "the art of naming files". Looks like it's not 8.3 compatible  smiley
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2009, 07:09:43 PM »

First of all, I want this to be a neutral place to comment.
FWIW, it doesn't really read that way to me, seems a bit antagonistic, especially when comments are imported from elsewhere. It's probably my poor level of comprehension manifesting itself yet again. I often think that because we don't all share the same first language, and yet try to express ourselves in English, comments end up with a different tone from what was intended. The great thing about DC is the level of tolerance and civility that dominates.
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Chris
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2009, 08:32:25 PM »

cranioscopical, you're right, of course. I'm probably coming on way too strong, but I'm very passionate about file managers. I would, however, like to discuss with Don the uses of descript.ion files and let him know how I use them to keep track of things between programs and hopefully he'll reconsider adding the feature.

His tags.dat file format may be wonderful, but it cannot replace descript.ion files for me till other programs can access the tags.dat file's contents.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2009, 09:12:23 PM »

I would, however, like to discuss with Don the uses of descript.ion files and let him know how I use them to keep track of things between programs and hopefully he'll reconsider adding the feature.
I'm sure you can make a good case. I use them too but I'm less ardent than you smiley
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Chris
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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2009, 11:13:28 PM »

Xyplorer is a nice tool with super steady developement. DonL generally welcomes suggestions, options and ideas I think. And he tries to naildown bugs as much as he can. I definetely suggest Xyplorer with DP or without Dp.

On the other hand I tend to agree with Innuendo`s experience with certain topics in the forum. I personally do not have positive or negative feedback on this particular issue but all I can say is that all ideas should be welcomed at least as a matter of discussion point as long as they are posted with good faith.

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Innuendo
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2009, 09:28:25 AM »

Quote from: cranioscopical
I use them too but I'm less ardent than you smiley

Yes, ardent is a nice way to describe my levels of excitement sometimes reaching fanaticism regarding file managers. Wink

I do want to state for the record that I admire what Don's been accomplishing with his file manager. He's trying to bring all the power of the Total Commanders and Directory Opuses of the world to an Explorer-style file manager without becoming as convoluted in the options/preferences department as Directory Opus and I think he's done very well accomplishing that.

I just miss descript.ion file support.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2009, 10:46:55 AM »

I just miss descript.ion file support.
Oh, I must have overlooked that point  Grin

I wonder how many people on here use them?  Might be interesting to see if anyone else holds up a hand.

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Chris
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2009, 10:55:42 AM »

2cranioscopical
I use them. With TC files colouring engine I can assign different names colours based on comments (i.e. $work$ gets violet). I have used it also for tagging.
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