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Author Topic: Windows 7 evaluation  (Read 23804 times)
Innuendo
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« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2009, 11:42:27 AM »

Quote from: MilesAhead
It's most interesting you're aware of the corporate motivations.  Guess you must be on the BOD?

f0dder doesn't have any crystal ball or inside track on information. When the public beta cycle for Windows 7 was announced the motivations (corporate and otherwise) were prominently announced on various blogs of the Windows 7 development team members.

All I can tell you from personal experience is that I'm running Windows 7 on a four year old computer with a graphics card that is at least four generations old and this OS is running better, smoother, and faster than any version of Vista or XP ever did.

I can also tell you that which version of Windows 7 that is installed in the beta versions so far released is mandated by the contents of an .ini file. People have hacked the .ini file and installed the home flavors of Windows 7 with no difference in performance. The only differences from the Ultimate install were missing features (which is understandable and by design) and the Ultimate serial numbers don't work on those versions (which is also understandable and also by design).

Unless one has a vertical app that requires a special version of Windows or is deadset on living in the past (OMG! Classic Mode is gone! [darth vader voice] Nooooooooooooooooooooooo! [/darth vader voice]) most people are going to be very happy with the new OS.

And to give you a personal perspective on my words, I really, really enjoyed Windows XP when it was released, but when Windows Vista came along I was very ambivalent about the whole Vista experience.
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40hz
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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2009, 12:01:19 PM »

Ran into a fun one yesterday. I tried a 32-bit install on an old Toshiba Satellite laptop. The installation went smoothly. I installed other software, rebooted it several times, and was quite happy with how quickly it came up. 

Everything seemed to be working correctly until I accidentally killed the power (it needs to run on AC since the battery is shot) while I had the Users control panel open. I hadn't selected any specific user, nor was I changing any of the user settings. I just had the panel open when the plug got accidentally pulled.

When I rebooted, I went straight into the desktop per usual. But any time I tried to open anything, it informed me I no longer was allowed to do so. Nor could I access the Control Panels for the same reason. Basically, all I could do was look at the desktop, restart it, or shut it down.

But most seriously, I could no longer log on as Administrator since it wouldn't accept the password which I had set up and successfully used for it previously. In the end I had to reinstall.

Bizarre. Something got corrupted during that power outage.

I submitted the details to MS.



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f0dder
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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2009, 04:38:41 PM »

MilesAhead: BOD? I'm just guessing anyway, but it seems like a reasonable reason.

Innuendo: actually, the preinstalled versions are usually done with sysprep - which is kinda an image, with the possibility of preinstalled software (usually tons of crapware yes >_<), but the sysprep stage means driver database is wiped clean (and thus rebuilt), and some other stuff. I definitely do clean windows installs myself, but it isn't always possible - oftentimes you don't get any re-install media (but get a recovery partition on the system), and the last time I saw a re-install media that was a clean windows disc was back with Win98... Sad
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MilesAhead
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« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2009, 07:31:18 PM »

BOD = Board Of Directors.  I think you guys get me wrong.  If I say Vista SP1 ain't so bad as Vista before SP1, I'm not saying Windows7 sucks.  If I thought that I wouldn't keep it on my dual core machine.  Just saying where possible people should compare similar levels of product.

And yes, before I chucked my old HP with one GB ram and Pentium 4 CPU I did put Windows7 Beta on it and it ran fine.  I experienced that first hand so I wasn't trying to say it didn't happen. Just saying I wished I could've tried the Home Premium equivalent to see if I got the same. I don't particularly care for gadgets but I do have to admit I like the Superbar.  Plus it's nice I don't have to hack anything to put themes on.  I was never much into exotic desktops and skins but since the Glass was there I figured I might as well try out some of this Visual Styles stuff.  I'm not doing galactic calculations on this machine anyway so I can spare a few cycles for bells & whistles. smiley

« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 07:45:24 PM by MilesAhead » Logged

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Innuendo
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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2009, 09:05:34 PM »

f0dder, yes, the sysprep...I was trying to be simple. Maybe I over-simplified it. It's a dang shame that most OEMs do not give clean re-install media to customers. I usually tell people that the sticker on the side of the case is their license for the OS software. If their OEM won't give them satisfaction with reinstall media there's usually some place on the internet where they can find it. Just so long as they install the version of Windows they bought using their key then they should be in the legal clear.

Dell used to include a clean Windows install disc with each machine. Then I think they went to a $20 charge for it. These days I don't know if you can get such a disc at any price.

MilesAhead, I understand what you are saying now. If you do a Google search I'm sure you could find the change you need to make to the .ini to get Windows 7 Home Premium. You'd be limited to 30 days as there are no Home Premium keys right now, but you'd get an idea of what to expect.
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2009, 11:14:01 AM »

Yes Dell still includes them (not to mention they're easy to copy if you barrow a friends...) ...and legal enough if you use your own COA key. Which OEM you get/install it from/on doesn't matter as they are all the same. I've used the Dell OEM media on everything from WhiteBox OEMs to eMachines.

I've got a self compiled set of OEM CDs for XP and I'm getting a Vista set built now which I've never had an issue with on (clean) install/activation. I have had to call MS for activation roughly 1 out of 50 times I use the disk set ... Which isn't bad odds considering its never failed.

In a pinch you can use the file list from the old Corp Files hack to build your own OEM CDs ... and no I will not go into detail on how. smiley (It was 3 years ago when I compiled the set, and all the info was Google-able)
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Innuendo
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« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2009, 01:06:00 PM »

Stoic Joker, yes...details are probably best left undiscussed & while I still have a lot to say on the matter I think we best let this part of the discussion drop.

I managed to get my mitts on Windows 7 Build 7201 and was more than a little disappointed to find out that Daemon Tools is broken...again.  Angry
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Hirudin
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« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2009, 06:57:41 PM »

Directory Opus (version 9.1.2.0.3429.x64 - which is the newest as far as I know) seems to work perfectly in Windows 7 RC1. When you start the install a warning pops up that says something like "this OS isn't supported". I just ignored it and continued with the installation, I haven't had any problems. Oh, I should mention that I have not "replaced" explorer.

One way cool thing about Windows 7 (or at least the RC) is that you can remove Windows components that you don't like, including Internet Explorer. I think I saw somewhere that there is some kind of command line-driven ISO creator that sounded like it would be similar to nLite. Maybe that means slipstreaming is back too. smiley


* Screenshot - 6_6_2009 , 6_26_14 PM.png (322.02 KB, 803x694 - viewed 255 times.)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 07:37:36 PM by Hirudin » Logged
MilesAhead
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« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2009, 07:59:36 PM »

Those with W7 32 bit may want to try Sandboxie v. 3.38. On the download page it has a disclaimer about only supporting build 7100 but it works fine on my 7077.

http://www.sandboxie.com/

If you try installing please take the precaution to save all your work and maybe make a restore point if you use them.  It uses some sort of virtual disk driver, among other things, to make sure apps in the sandbox can't write outside the sandbox without permission. If your machine doesn't like the driver, it may crash at the point of installation(there's a warning page in the install dialog.  Just thought I'd mention it to avoid the unpleasant surprise.)  It happened to me a couple of times on older HP machines of the Pentium 4 vintage.
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f0dder
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« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2009, 08:02:51 AM »

Innuendo: if you don't need the "sneaky-stuff" that Daemon-Tools do, try out Virtual CloneDrive - free and works with win7.

Too bad that it seems the nLite/vLite projects are abandoned now, and won't be updated for win7. vLite kinda works, but it doesn't officially support win7, and you can easily break stuff with it Sad
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- carpe noctem
Innuendo
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« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2009, 09:59:15 AM »

Quote from: Hirudin
Directory Opus (version 9.1.2.0.3429.x64 - which is the newest as far as I know) seems to work perfectly in Windows 7 RC1. When you start the install a warning pops up that says something like "this OS isn't supported".

You'll be fine with DOpus as long as you don't do something crazy like trying to replace Explorer. That's the only reason why that message pops up. Fortunately, you are smart enough to realize that so I'm just reiterating that for someone who is thinking, "Everything else seems to be working...let's give it a try." It won't work & windows 7 will not be amused.

Quote
Maybe that means slipstreaming is back too. smiley

Slipstreaming is gone never to return. It's all about WIMs nowadays. That's a shame because I thought slipstreaming Office & Windows was such a cool feature. Now the new way just seems like a hack.

Quote from: f0dder
Innuendo: if you don't need the "sneaky-stuff" that Daemon-Tools do, try out Virtual CloneDrive - free and works with win7.

Virtual CloneDrive is inferior to MagicDisc. It's also free & works with Windows 7, but supports up to 15 drives and has image support for a lot more formats than Virtual CloneDrive including MDF/MDS and BWI/BWT. It's the only virtual disc program I've found besides Daemon Tools and Alcohol 52%/120% that supports MDF/MDS. No copy-protection & DRM support, though. One still needs Daemon Tools for that, but handles unprotected disc images beautifully.

And regarding vLite, yeah...using that is bad. MS even put up a KnowledgeBase article on that subject that basically says in a round-about way, "Hey, use vLite if you want to, but you're most likely going to have to reinstall Windows 7 if you do."

EDIT: Forgot to include the link to MagicDisc: http://www.magiciso.com/t...so-magicdisc-overview.htm
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f0dder
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« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2009, 12:58:55 PM »

Innuendo: I used to use MagicDisc when I switched away from d-t, but the version I used was (majorly smiley) incompatible with Win7 so I switched to VCD. I only really need a single drive, really (and VCD supports more than that), I don't need (nor want!) the sneaky-hidey business of D-T, and so far I haven't needed any of the fancy image types (tbh I'd only consider something like mdf+mds/bwi+bwt if I was making backups of my own copy-protected games... and tbh, I'd rather just make a normal copy and use a crack).

So VCD works pretty well for my needs smiley
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Josh
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« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2009, 02:25:08 PM »

Hmm, I actually just bought 2 years worth of D Tools Std. It seems to be the only program which "Just works" without any hitches.
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Innuendo
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« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2009, 05:49:00 PM »

Josh, was just getting ready to come in here with an update. What transpired exactly was I did an upgrade install from build 7137 to build 7201 and I dutifully uninstalled Daemon Tools like the Upgrade Installer told me to before performing the upgrade.

What the Upgrade Installer should have told me to do was to uninstall the SPTD layer as well. Once I performed some registry permission mojo I was able to get Daemon Tools working again. Yay me. Boo Microsoft.
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Jammo the OrganizedFellow
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« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2009, 09:22:12 PM »

One way cool thing about Windows 7 (or at least the RC) is that you can remove Windows components that you don't like, including Internet Explorer
That is SOO cool, thanks for showing that!

I read many scattered topics on the Tips & Tricks of W7, but this is a new one I haven't read.
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« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2009, 09:37:41 PM »

If you like that jammo, you'll probably also like the fact that a lot of stuff (Windows Mail, MSN Messenger, etc) aren't even included at all with the OS. If you want any of them you can download Windows Live Essentials. Windows 7 is definitely more streamlined than its predecessors.

Reports say there may be an RTM image by Monday.
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johnk
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« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2009, 11:38:45 AM »

I'm disappointed to say that I share the OP's opinion -- I'm still struggling to find any compelling reason to upgrade from XP.

Win7 is certainly no slower than XP SP3, and may even be a touch faster on my system (but only a touch). But I've yet to come across any function or set of functions that makes the upgrade worthwhile. Win7 may make some techie things easier, but I know my way around XP pretty well by now. And I find XP to be very stable.

My opinion may be coloured by the fact that our household has four PCs, so upgrading is not a £50 decision, it's a £200 decision (as household tech admin, I'm only willing to manage one OS at a time!).

That, and the fact that I'm an old-fashioned guy at heart. The first thing I did on Win7 was to use the Classic Theme and switch the desktop to a plain background colour, make the icons much smaller.... Pretty soon it was looking just like all my XP installations (which, come to think of it, look just like all my Win95 installations.....).

XP until 2014, then, I guess. Can't really see why not.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 11:43:57 AM by johnk » Logged
Innuendo
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« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2009, 10:20:12 AM »

johnk, moving to the classic theme negates a big speed advantage of Win7 if you have decent graphics cards in your PCs as the new Aero theme harnesses the unused power of your graphics cards to dramatically speed up the UI.

Yes, if you change Win7 to look and act just like Win95 then there's no incentive to upgrade. However, give the default setup a chance for a week. I think you'd find yourself at the end of that time being very reluctant to turn off the enhancements. Aero Peek, Aero Shake, Super Bar, etc. are very nice once you have gotten used to them.

Personal anecdote time...I had to work on a Windows XP PC a week or so ago and it was a frustrating experience as all the UI enhancements and speed weren't there. After working on that PC for an hour I knew there was no way I could go back to WinXP.

I have a friend who thinks a lot like you. Once I 'forced' him to 'endure' the full Windows 7 experience for a few days he's now happily grooving along enjoying Win7. Only thing he's mad about is I didn't 'force' him to do it sooner.
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johnk
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« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2009, 12:02:30 PM »

johnk, moving to the classic theme negates a big speed advantage of Win7 if you have decent graphics cards in your PCs as the new Aero theme harnesses the unused power of your graphics cards to dramatically speed up the UI.
I'm trialling Win7 on a modest, four-year-old laptop (the Win7 installation said Aero would not be possible on the machine). So maybe I need to try it out on my desktop.
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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2009, 02:01:31 PM »

There are minimum requirements to run Aero. If I am remembering correctly you need a DX9-capable graphics card with 256MB of RAM.
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« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2009, 03:02:07 AM »

Hopefully someone have an answer to this.

I've just installed the RC 64bit to see what all the fuss is about, but yet all my memory is not being used.
It's like I installed the 32bit version, the info windows say 64bit operating system but only show 3,37gb (4,0gb installed)
So for some reason I don't have all the memory available eventhough I should have.
Anyone kow what could be the cause of this?
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justice
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« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2009, 04:06:11 AM »

Shared video memory (are you using a laptop?)?
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mrHappy
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« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2009, 05:35:36 AM »

no laptop.
I've even updated to the latest bios for my board (aus p5ld2 se) and set everything that I could possible think of to be enabled in case it would help, but nothing. Still only 3,37gb usuable.

The funny part is that XP 32bit show about 3,5gb usuable.
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« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2009, 02:05:57 PM »

I don't remember the fix but I seem to remember a post on this subject on Windows7 forum.  Take a look and see if you have any luck:

http://www.sevenforums.com/
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« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2009, 03:58:51 PM »

Thanks for the tip, unfortuantely it did not help.

Only thing I was able to find quickly and since I didn't know what exactly to searh for was make Win7 x64 use all your mem…. Unfortuantely that did not help me, the option it says to uncheck was already unchecked.
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