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for the past 50 years, American students were taught bullshit

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Eóin:
A Mackintosh I believe, and quite funny at that ;D

kartal:
Guys I never said I was against science, education,analysis, linguistic sciences etc. I just said that so much worshipping on grammar is a scientific dogma.

Here we have a good example, Jimdoria is claiming that couple hundred years ago grammar was not established properly that is why he is having hard time understanding literature from that time. Well guess what, actually the language you talk today is probably more like a radiation infected amorph language compared to the past. I think you guys think that mankind keeps moving forward thus language and grammar move forward as well. That is a false feeling in my book.

There is no right or wrong way of talking a language, there are only vague patterns that are accepted by all levels of the society. During the human history,  the languages of certain classes and groups were imposed on others.  At some point people were divided in to those who can speak latin or greek and those who could not. And those who could not were always subject to enslavement, and called barbarians by those who always saw themselves right and just.  Later in history many colonies were built upon some of these ideals. You can actually probably see these same politics around  London or New York in year 2009. So saying that language politics is only a matter of conspiracy is either denial or light hearted approach. My point is that grammar should be kept as a science and should be never applied as hard facts and laws on people. I am sure none of you could pass your english class if you fail in grammar even if you write an amazing poem or story with the grammar of 500 years ago.

I have never denied findings of grammar as a science but I just think that applied grammar in societies and education systems  is a form of fascism.

tomos:
Here we have a good example, Jimdoria is claiming that couple hundred years ago grammar was not established properly that is why he is having hard time understanding literature from that time. Well guess what, actually the language you talk today is probably more like a radiation infected amorph language compared to the past. I think you guys think that mankind keeps moving forward thus language and grammar move forward as well. That is a false feeling in my book.
-kartal (April 20, 2009, 03:40 PM)
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I agree there.

There is no right or wrong way of talking a language, there are only vague patterns that are accepted by all levels of the society.
-kartal (April 20, 2009, 03:40 PM)
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agreed again

I am sure none of you could pass your english class if you fail in grammar even if you write an amazing poem or story with the grammar of 500 years ago.
-kartal (April 20, 2009, 03:40 PM)
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I think if you write "an amazing poem or story" - even using modern language, you're probably going to break any number of the more rigid grammar rules that exist today  :)

f0dder:
Actually grammar is a relative construct by human beings, it is unnatural. I would  say that do not rely on grammar much. Grammar kills the language and puts it in a box. Grammar is elitist and creates class division.  Let languages flourish as they want to be. I hope it makes sense. I am an anti-grammar guy, really :)-kartal (April 19, 2009, 01:16 AM)
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Eye r liek 2tally in aggrement!

Grorgy:
I found this on why grammar is important, some may find it interesting:

Grammar is important because it is the language that makes it possible for us to talk about language. Grammar names the types of words and word groups that make up sentences not only in English but in any language. As human beings, we can put sentences together even as children--we can all do grammar. But to be able to talk about how sentences are built, about the types of words and word groups that make up sentences--that is knowing about grammar. And knowing about grammar offers a window into the human mind and into our amazingly complex mental capacity.

People associate grammar with errors and correctness. But knowing about grammar also helps us understand what makes sentences and paragraphs clear and interesting and precise. Grammar can be part of literature discussions, when we and our students closely read the sentences in poetry and stories. And knowing about grammar means finding out that all languages and all dialects follow grammatical patterns.
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  (my emphasis added) http://www.ateg.org/grammar/qna.php

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