Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
The Bat: Great program, terrible documentation and support
J-Mac:
It does say in the rules the following:
In this forum, the users of The Bat! can communicate with each other to spread their positive attitude toward The Bat!, to share the experience in attaining different goals using The Bat!
--- End quote ---
Soooo.... they don't want anything posted there apparently that is not spreading your "positive attitude" about the bat. What a crock! Talk about self-serving.
I can now add this as another reason I wouldn't even consider installing this thing on my machine! (I won't bother to go into all the others!)
Jim
J-Mac:
On a related note, I was able to access their newsgroup/mailing list and it is VERY active. Seems like all the important discussions happen in there. A bit antiquated in my opinion, but it is a poweruser email program so i can understand why they gravitate towards using mailing lists and newsgroups.
-superboyac (March 14, 2009, 02:53 PM)
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?????! I don't see the correlation at all. Poweruser programs use usenet and mailing lists? ;D ;D ;D I think not! Has nothing to do with whether a program is for, (Ahem!) "powerusers". To me it just indiciates that the developer of the program has probably been around computers for a long time and is accustomed to/more familiar and comfortable with such media.
Jim
superboyac:
?????! I don't see the correlation at all. Poweruser programs use usenet and mailing lists? ;D ;D ;D I think not! Has nothing to do with whether a program is for, (Ahem!) "powerusers". To me it just indiciates that the developer of the program has probably been around computers for a long time and is accustomed to/more familiar and comfortable with such media.
Jim
-J-Mac (March 15, 2009, 01:44 PM)
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Yeah, I know...I've used all the different kinds of support methods over the years like mailing lists, forums, simple emails to the author. The best BY FAR is an active forum as far as quickly finding information and resolving issues. And for that matter, this DC forum is the best as far as interface and searching options and organization. But I also know mouser has put in a lot of custom tweaks and effort to make it that way.
Mailing lists are a pain in the butt. Sure, there's a lot of information in there, but it's hard to find something when you need it. And because of that, it forces you to read a whole bunch of stuff you don't really care about. Remember the days (about 10 years ago)? I was on several mailing lists and it was just ridiculous. I was in college and didn't have as many responsibilities so i had the tiime, but man, I had to read so much garbage every day. No, forums are definitely the way to go.
But Jim, seriously, the Bat as a program is excellent. I don't know what client I would use if it did not exist. I used to use pegasus for years which is still pretty good. but DC made me change.
cyberdiva:
Mailing lists are a pain in the butt. Sure, there's a lot of information in there, but it's hard to find something when you need it. And because of that, it forces you to read a whole bunch of stuff you don't really care about. -superboyac (March 15, 2009, 08:25 PM)
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I think this depends on the mailing list (by which I assume you mean a listserv). Some listservs, especially those running LSoft Listserv software, have searchable logfiles that make finding information just as easy as on web forums.
But Jim, seriously, the Bat as a program is excellent. I don't know what client I would use if it did not exist. I used to use pegasus for years which is still pretty good. but DC made me change.
--- End quote ---
Several years ago, when Mulberry seemed as if it was about to disappear, I tried several other email clients, including The Bat. It had lots of attractive features, but unfortunately its IMAP support was disappointing, not nearly as good as that in Mulberry, Pegasus, or even Thunderbird. I don't know whether the most recent version of The Bat offers improved IMAP support, but since Mulberry is still alive, I no longer feel any urgency about finding another email client. And to be honest, your experience with The Bat's web forum really puts me off. I want to be able to participate in a forum without feeling as if I have to watch every word and opinion I express. So I guess for now I'm sticking with Mulberry, with Thunderbird and Pegasus available when I need them.
superboyac:
Some more complaints about the Bat's support. I keep looking for a helpful, normal forum to figure shit out about the Bat, but there is nothing like that. here's what I've found:
The actual Ritlabs forum:
This is the one on their website. According to the rules, you can only say "positive" things about the Bat there. Nothing else. no bug reports, no support questions, nothing about beta. Only "positive" remarks. It's basically a forum to only give good testimontials for the program. So the official forum is basically useless. i doubt anyone goes there for anything...ever. That's why it's not used.
The stupid mailing list (also accessed through usenet, if you prefer):
This is by far the most active place to discuss all things related to the Bat. The only problem is that it's, well, really really antiquated. We're talking early 90's technology here. Either you use a listserv mailing list, which basically means people communicate through emails. You subscribe and get tons of emails, or one large weekly mail. Or if you don't like that, you can read/post through the newsgroups which mirrors the activity in the mailing list. This is very insane. Good luck searching for answers, or navigating through all the information. Forums are really the way to go for stuff like this, if only the Bat would get with the times. it would be great if they just allowed the Ritlabs forum to be used as a regular forum, open to everything so people can actually figure things out about the Bat. Or give us a manual! Something! Good grief...
Now, I found this forum, called The Unofficial Bat Support Forums:
http://the-bat-forums.org
The problem with this forum is that nobody uses it. It's great if people used it, but they don't. It's a normal, modern forum, with all the features you would expect. But because everyone that matters uses the mailing lists, nobody uses this. So it's basically useless.
I have such a love/hate relationship with this program. There are like 5 things that they never fix, and if they did, it would be awesome. I can even show them exactly how to do it, and it wouldn't be that hard from a programmer's standpoint. But as many of you know, the only features they have added in the past 5 years are very minor, and predominantly useless. Why? Because the only feedback they ever get is from the mailing list users. And anyone who regularly participates on a mailing list is not a "normal" person. That's not a criticism, what I mean is that they hardly have any sense about what is "easy" for normal people, and they don't care about buttons/UI as long as their keyboard shortcuts are working. So you can't expect them to care about easy conveniences. A version 5 is coming out, and I can almost assure you that there is going to be nothing noticeably different about the program.
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