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Last post Author Topic: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen  (Read 35345 times)

40hz

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2009, 06:40:57 PM »
Any fans of Heavy Metal magazine?

Still got some from it's first year in the USA. Used to have all of them from the first 5 years. Lost them in a move to a new apartment along with a lot of other stuff that somehow 'disappeared' in transit. But I guess that's to be expected when you have friends of friends of friends helping you move.

Girard/Moebius' Arzach...Bode's Cheech Wizard inspired Sunpot...boy were those ever eye-opening strips for a kid who grew up with the much tamer offerings from Mad Magazine, DC and Marvel comics.

SunpotAd.jpg

 8)

My all time favorite cover was the punked-out white-haired motor cycle rider decked out in red leather with "Papa Noel" tattooed on his knuckles that appeared on one of the December issues.

I thought the first few years were the best. As time went on it seemed to undergo a transformation from "experimental with a heavy dose of erotic" to "frankly pornographic." I've got nothing against that per sce, but it gets boring after a while. At least it did for me.

I haven't looked at Métal Hurlant's cousin for several years now. Has it gotten good again?



« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 06:54:17 PM by 40hz »

PaladinMJ

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 07:24:30 PM »
I love graphic novels and Mangas also Drama CD's. Drama cd's are like comics on cd... audio comics.. they are usually independant stories.. or extra info beyond the books etc.. grteat great stuff
When I have a mission, it consumes me; I will not be satisfied until the job is done. I have a strong sense of duty, and a strong sense of direction. Changes in the tide don't phase me - I always know which way the wind blows, and I know how to compensate for it. I get on poorly with people like myself.

wuwei23

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 08:03:21 PM »
While I have mad love for pretty much everything Alan Moore writes, I think 'Watchmen' is too firmly steeped in comic tradition to be the 'greatest' graphic novel. Amazingly influential, yes. But when large thematic portions of the story are told via a comic-within-the-comic technique (Moore loves his meta-narrative), it can be a big stumbling block to people who aren't well versed in the history of the genre (and I state this from having pushed the book on everyone I know).

Moore's 'V for Vendetta' is an equally powerful yet entirely self-contained work that I have a lot more success in recommending (or did until the film killed any interest in it with it's godawful, pointless changes). 'The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen' is a lot of fun if you have any familiarity with Victorian literature (and also totally destroyed by a godawful film). His 'Lost Girls' is an astounding work of both pornography & literature. 'Promethea' is one of the best occult primers I've ever encountered.

See? Totally smitten with the guy :)

Other more recent works that I can't recommend enough:
  • Scott Pilgrim - part slacker romance, part video game pastiche, a totally new style in storytelling
  • Barry Ween, Boy Genius - 'Dexter's Lab' meets 'South Park'
  • Girls - one of the most original first contact stories I've ever read
  • Ex Machina - Superheroes meet 'West Wing'
  • Y, The Last Man - Something kills all of the males on the planet but two...

Okay, so some of those are series of trades rather than a singular graphic novel, but they all rock my world.

mouser: did you see that Larry Marder is finally releasing new 'Beanworld' material? There was a Holiday Special released just prior to Xmas, and it looks like Dark Horse is going to re-release the earlier trades as well as continue with new stuff. (I'm really surprised it's with DH given everything he's done for Image over the past decade.)

mukestar

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 08:40:07 PM »
ooh, havent been on this site for a while, not since the career change. But once i got the mailshot with Graphic Novel and Watchmen , my spidey sense tingled and i had to jump in. (it turned out it wasn't spidey sense, i'd just left my phone on vibrate.)

First of hall i hate the term "Graphic Novel", its comic. "Graphic Novel" was only invented by stuck up critics who refused to acknowedge comics as a platform for serious literature and just couldn't bring themselves to actually say the word "comic".

My opinion is that Watchmen is the most groundbreaking comic, it opened the floodgates so to speak. I personally liked V for Vendetta over watchmen, it had stonger narrative.

My personal favorite is the Sandman series, it was just so different and fresh at the time, and once Death made an appearance your just hooked. I just hope they dont try to make a film and ruin the images in my head.

Apart from that, do the Bash Steet Kids count.

zridling

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 10:16:17 PM »
Going to buy the Watchmen book for my brother in prison. He's never read a graphic novel. It's time for him to start.

redstarnyc

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2009, 07:40:28 PM »
Watchmen is definitely the best of all time.  I too bought the books at Forbidden Planet.  I really learned what comics could be from that book.  I've read a lot of stuff, but nothing holds a candle to Watchmen. 
RedstarNYC

nrenfree

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2009, 06:57:04 PM »
How about 300? It's about the ONLY graphic novel I know. I LOVE it. The movie rocks too.   :D

Mizraim

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2009, 08:48:57 AM »
When I was younger for some reason I fell victim to the world of The Punisher. I don't remember exactly what it was that drew me to that particular comic, but I really liked it. Perhaps it was the flawless execution of The Punisher's planning or something. :P Regardless, comics can really be a big part of life, the stories, the drama, the unexpected death of a loved one or ally. Like a good book, a good picture book. :)

Deozaan, I saw some of the Broken Saints, but not the whole thing, it could have been the slow rate in between frames that threw me off, but I don't exactly remember. I'll probably have to revisit that and finish it. :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 06:18:01 PM by Mizraim »

Darwin

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2009, 08:55:35 AM »
Anyone seen the movie yet? Everyone I know who might go with me is 15 or younger (my kids are 4 and 6), so I haven't had a chance to get out to see it  ;D
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Mizraim

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2009, 09:15:41 AM »
I heard from a friend that it was a horrible waste of 3 hours. He had re-read it before watching it and it totally went off the wayside. Having never read it myself, nor seeing the movie, I can only go off of what I've heard. I typically don't like watching movies based on a book that I've recently read, because Hollywood always tends to add change the story.  :mad:

40hz

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2009, 12:54:58 PM »
Anyone seen the movie yet? Everyone I know who might go with me is 15 or younger (my kids are 4 and 6), so I haven't had a chance to get out to see it  ;D

Suggestion: wait 2 weeks and then go to see it on a Tuesday or Thursday night around 8 PM.

I don't know if this works everywhere, but doing it that way where I live gets me an almost private screening. I seldom share the theater with more than ten people.* And most of them are adults who came for no other reason than to actually sit and watch the picture.

:Thmbsup: Gotta love that!  :Thmbsup:

;D

* (When I saw Constantine, Hellboy, and Sky Captain it was just me and my girlfriend. There were six people when we saw Sunshine, five for Hellboy II, three for Pan's Labyrinth, about a dozen for each of the Lord of the Rings installments...the list just goes on and on!)


« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 01:00:09 PM by 40hz »

40hz

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2009, 01:11:50 PM »
I typically don't like watching movies based on a book that I've recently read, because Hollywood always tends to add change the story.  :mad:

Boy do I know that feeling.

Sometimes (rarely) it works - the Bourne films & Chocolat are actually better IMHO that the original books.

But most times it doesn't - LOTR The Two Towers & Return of the King being two of the most obvious screenwriting screw-ups.




Deozaan

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2009, 03:48:30 PM »
I heard from a friend that it was a horrible waste of 3 hours. He had re-read it before watching it and it totally went off the wayside. Having never read it myself, nor seeing the movie, I can only go off of what I've heard. I typically don't like watching movies based on a book that I've recently read, because Hollywood always tends to add change the story.  :mad:

I think movies work like this: Watch the movie before you read the book. That way if Hollywood totally smurfs up the book's story, well, it might still be a good movie but with a different story than the book. Then you'll have (potentially) seen a good movie and you can still read a good book.

I remember this is how it was with Eragon. People who had read the book absolutely hated the movie (including me), but most people who had not read the book enjoyed the movie (including my wife).


Lashiec

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2009, 04:09:32 PM »
Anyone seen the movie yet? Everyone I know who might go with me is 15 or younger (my kids are 4 and 6), so I haven't had a chance to get out to see it  ;D

I went yesterday night with a friend and I kinda enjoyed it. I never read Watchmen before, so I didn't have any expectations on it. Well, I expected it to be acceptable at least, I pay some money for it ya know ;D, but I didn't care if it was true to the novel or not.

Anyway, the movie was worth the ticket. I liked how the main plot was slowly developed mostly by the investigations of Rorschach, while it showed the post-superhero life of the rest of the main characters, and their struggle with normal life. I think such internal conflicts were already present in past superhero movies or comics, but it seems to me that the Watchmen heroes don't have anything in life than being that, and as a result they felt to me like empty characters, and I did not feel empathy with any of them. I ignore if this is a fault of the movie, lacking character development or if in the comic were already like that. I also missed in the movie a lot of the backstory of the different masked heroes, including the ones that fought in the World War II, as my friend said to me such backstories were present in the novel.

The actors did their job, but I did not find anything remotely memorable, frankly. Perhaps the characters were not exactly appropriate for a good actor to develop a fine role, so who knows. The action parts were nice, well choreographed, and making good use of special effects, although some of them were quite violent with blood splatter and limbs being cut. The soundtrack is really cool.

Still, I was kinda disappointed in the end. The "Luke, I am your father" part didn't strike me at all, and it's not that I saw it coming, perhaps I was expecting a more complex twist, even more considering that the unveiled truth is disgusting, but after 5 minutes you promptly accept it (IRL it would not be remotely possible, in any case). Also, the movie lacks cohesion between the different parts, and the rhythm of the narrative is irregular </pedantic critic>

Most of the disappointment comes from the fact that I fail to see what makes Watchmen so great. While as I said it's a fine movie, if it's a faithful adaption of the Moore novel, I wonder why it's so loved, because I did not see anything to make me think otherwise in that respect. I guess I will end up getting the comics one way or another, but if someone cares to explain where's the big fuss in the meantime...

But most times it doesn't - LOTR The Two Towers & Return of the King being two of the most obvious screenwriting screw-ups.

I think the Lord of the Rings movies did a good job of adapting the book to a different medium. It doesn't beat the original text by any strech of the imagination as movies can't match the feelings you get reading a nice book, but they were really enjoyable, and worth watching a few times more. A better example would be Dune, a major disaster, as a movie and as a book adaptation.

It's not even clear if Watchmen is a good adaptation or not. Some claim it's a heresy, others said it's damn good... I guess that must be it's OK.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 04:23:20 PM by Lashiec »

alivingspirit

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2009, 04:16:18 PM »
I saw it last night also and I approve this message. Good job Lashiec that was a great review.

Shades

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2009, 05:27:07 PM »
Felt totally dissatisfied after the movie (Eragon) and only now I hear it's about a story in a book. Should have guessed that after the ending of the movie  :-[

Maybe if I could get it as (damn near) free ebook or something, it would be worth reading. That movie really left a bad taste and I consider myself a fantasy fan because of all the books I read, movies I've seen and games I played (computer and table-top alike).

Sorry, but I disagree with you (at least with this movie :-)). Personal preference would be first the book and see the movie after when you are feeling up to it...for some (seriously) twisted up story adapted by the hollyweird studios.

Ah well, in this part of the world we have to wait at least 3 to 4 months before it is shown in the theaters. Time enough for me to get ready  ;)   

Mizraim

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2009, 06:25:25 PM »
I think movies work like this: Watch the movie before you read the book. That way if Hollywood totally smurfs up the book's story, well, it might still be a good movie but with a different story than the book. Then you'll have (potentially) seen a good movie and you can still read a good book.

I remember this is how it was with Eragon. People who had read the book absolutely hated the movie (including me), but most people who had not read the book enjoyed the movie (including my wife).

This is exactly what to do! You always hear of the exact opposite happening though. Oh 'said title' is being made into a movie. **Rushes out to find/read/re-read book of 'said title'.*** Now I can go watch the movie...

Only to find the story doesn't follow, or has been changed so rashly, that it ruins the rest of the movie. Another epic example of this was Beowulf. The epic poem about Beowulf's heroic adventures takes him across the ocean to fight a monster spawned by the sin of a king. Upon destroying the monster, Beowulf is then instructed to kill the mother. And there is where the poem and the movie completely differ. (If you haven't read the book or seen the animated film, I won't spoil it.) Having never read the poem, I thought the movie was pretty good for a CG film. However upon researching more on the actual poem, I found the added/changed content disturbing. Why Hollywood deemed the change in the story is completely beyond me, and in my opinion, took away from the heroic nature of Beowulf.

Deozaan

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2009, 11:48:47 PM »
Mouser recommends Watchmen:

LOLMouser - Buy Watchmen.jpg

« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 11:50:58 PM by Deozaan »

Nod5

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2009, 07:06:55 AM »
Many great suggestions here already. Let me add one not yet mentioned: The Walking Dead. Presently at issue #59 and it looks like it can go on for hundreds more.
http://www.boingboin...ng-dead-scary-e.html
http://en.wikipedia....iki/The_Walking_Dead

Also, four great comic creators in one small photo:
a.png
http://www.boingboin...-clowes-ware-an.html
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 07:08:43 AM by Nod5 »

TucknDar

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2009, 07:14:06 AM »
Many great suggestions here already. Let me add one not yet mentioned: The Walking Dead.
Great suggestion! Absolutely fabulous story, IMHO!

J-Mac

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2009, 01:48:12 AM »
I never read any comic books, but now that I think of it, there was one I kind of did read. It's an interactive graphic novel done in Flash with music and sound effects.

It even came out on DVD with voice acting by some famous voice actors (I recognized 2 of the voices from Inuyasha).

It's called Broken Saints. Unfortunately their website has fallen into disrepair since the apex of their popularity. None of the links work, except the blog.

But when the site was up and running, they allowed you to download the chapters, and I still have them in my downloads folder. It's an 12-hour epic, broken into chapters (some of which are broken into acts) and in my opinion it's a very powerful story. It's definitely an adult novel (language, violence, nudity) not meant for kids or the workplace, but I think if you enjoy graphic novels (or even if you don't know you do) you ought to watch it.

I have never been into comic books/graphic novels but I thoroughly enjoyed Broken Saints. I'll even admit that near the end this one had me in tears. :-[ I wholeheartedly recommend it! :Thmbsup: :up:

Link: Broken Saints.rar (186 MB)
MD5: bd2d5ce0151034456db99c7522206a0b

Just click the chapter HTM files from the root directory, they will attempt to popup a new browser window fit to the optimum viewing dimensions and you can start enjoying an awesome graphic novel!

Not quite working as expected here. I clicked the Chapter 1 file - Introitus.htm - and it opened a fresh tab full-size in Firefox. But it didn't open the .swf file or do anything else. Nice graphics but I was hoping to see the Flash file play upon opening the htm file. Probably something weird in my setup here, but I can't see what. Any advice is appreciated!

Thank you.

Jim

Eóin

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2009, 05:35:12 AM »
I just saw the film recently, haven't read the book yet. My film review; excellent 4 star movie. Few if any Hollywood cliché. A bit philosophical at times but well woven into the narrative. I would disagree with Lashiec on the characters bit, I thought they were refreshingly down to earth and human.

All in all like I said, excellent 4 star movie, not quite a 5 star classic but perhaps the book is.

Edvard

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2009, 06:49:16 PM »

mouser

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2009, 02:36:14 AM »
Many great suggestions here already. Let me add one not yet mentioned: The Walking Dead.

I had a chance to read the volume one compendium of this.  Very adult material, but damn damn good.

mouser

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Re: The Greatest Graphic Novel of All Time: Watchmen
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2009, 09:35:56 PM »
Any other recommendations for more graphic novels along the same lines as The Walking Dead?