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Complaints about Direct Access Text Expander Taking Ideas from Others - Split Topic

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bmms:
Mouser, thank you for taking care of this matter in such a respectful and professional manner.

By the way, we seems not to be alone in this case:

Andrea, can it be that have had a close look at other companies text copy as well as an sources for "inspiration" as you can see in attached screenshots.

Or is it yet another conincidence and do you still pretend to not understand what it is all about?

app103:
I have a few questions about this allegation of copying:


* Does BartelsMedia hold a patent on the implementation of any of the features in which there is a claim of copying?
* Does BartelsMedia mean to suggest that nagar reverse engineered his product in order to discover proprietary secrets to enable him to duplicate the features?
* Does BartelsMedia mean to claim that nagar stole the source code to his product and used it in his?
If the answer is no, then I don't understand where the issue is.

If he did not infringe on any patents, did not use stolen code, and wrote his own implementation of these features, then he has done nothing wrong.

Having the same keyboard shortcuts for the same purpose as another program isn't stealing. If it were, then only applications created by Microsoft would be allowed to use F1 to display Help. And only 1 game in the whole world would be allowed to use the arrow keys to control direction.

Furthermore, I'd like to call your attention to a post I made awhile back concerning ideas and patents.

There is a reason why the US patent office doesn't allow one to patent ideas and only allows the patenting of the implementation of ideas.

One can have or use the same idea as someone else, but when it comes to the actual implementation they can be different. Unless the source code of both applications are identical for the identical features, then there really wasn't any real copying. There could be major differences in the way it's coded to such a degree that they are actually very far from being anywhere near alike (and it is possible in theory, that the "copy" can actually be much better than the other because of the way it was implemented).

To illustrate my point, I would like to call your attention to ReactOS which aims to duplicate Windows XP without illegally reverse engineering it and infringing on any of Microsoft's rights. It is possible to do this using clean-room design and that is why the project continues to exist.

I would understand if Microsoft became upset about this, but legally they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it was all done legally and not by stealing code, infringing on patents, etc.

If only 1 application was allowed to have certain features, then most of mouser's screenshot captor's features wouldn't exist, because only 1 screen capture utility would be allowed to exist with certain features.

And along the same line, should mouser follow Bill Gates around and act in the same manner that BartelsMedia has, since many new features in Vista resemble applications he had created? (ok, that was meant to be a joke, but it is still true to a certain degree, even if it is funny)

My suggestion is for both BartelsMedia and nagar to keep working on their products to make them the best they can be and as bug free as possible and offer the best support to users as they can. because where one lacks, the other can certainly excel and that will be where the real difference in the applications will be noticeable. Running around chasing each other to bad mouth and complain will only show users that neither product should be considered and a third option would probably be best, one developed by someone with a lot more maturity.

Paul Keith:
app103, great post but if I may interject, (from my perspective) I think BartelsMedia is not so much objecting the decision for legality but for the ethics behind the decision.

He's not giving us reasons to not use the other products because he plans to sue them. He's opening awareness for a possibility that his product is specifically being targeted by another developer as their model without them working on anything new on their part.

With ReactOS, you know the developers are trying to reverse engineer Windows. Everyone who looks up ReactOS knows that. With his product, he may fear that it isn't popular enough that people won't be aware that another developer is seemingly copying his application feature per feature. Not just on similar shortcuts or interfaces. Basically when he releases a new feature, soon that feature goes into the other product without any new addition.

I think he just wants some clarification on this so users won't be wondering who made what feature first.

bmms:
I would understand if Microsoft became upset about this, but legally they wouldn't have a leg to stand on
--- End quote ---

App103, I am sorry if I was mistakable. You are right if you say that we cannot do anything against it from a legal perspective. Just like the Apple/Vista case.

If you read my postings again, you would not find me saying, that his software is a complete rip-off. It looks different and he has apparently coded it by himself.

Here is another approach to describe the situation:

1. We release a new feature A. For Andrea, there would be hundred potential other features to make, but a he feels the urge to release a quickly drafted me-too feature A after a few months.

2. As we move on, we introduce a new feature B. Not, that we necessarily invented this feature and we do not hold a patent on it, nor would be valid to patent by us. But again, Andrea would have to close many gaps in his software or could have opted for hundred potential other features to make, but no, he seems to be in a hurry to release an uncut counterfeit version of feature B.

3. We then release a new feature C. Bet, was is next on his task list...

And this did not happen just two or three times, but way too often to let me believe that it is a "conincidence". The features I mean are also too special to let me believe they have been demanded by his users as he explains. Additionally, his strategy comes along with blatant 1:1 stealing of text copy as shown in the video.

And here is a very important point:

Have you recognized the similarity of the text copy in above screenshots? Would you deny that both versions are based on the same text but just slightly modified?

As he intentionally re-worded the text copy just slightly does it not mean that he is fully aware of doing a very questionable business and just tries to avoid copyright litigation?

We do not believe that his software affects our corporate sales at all. PhraseExpress is free-of-charge for personal users and we only sell to the corporate market which requires professional features and an infrastructure which can hardly be provided by a one person part-time hobby project.

It is not about money. It is the embarrassment that he is taking ideas and concepts over an extended period of time regardless we told him that it is not appreciated.

app103:
You might do well to read this part again:

My suggestion is for both BartelsMedia and nagar to keep working on their products to make them the best they can be and as bug free as possible and offer the best support to users as they can. because where one lacks, the other can certainly excel and that will be where the real difference in the applications will be noticeable. Running around chasing each other to bad mouth and complain will only show users that neither product should be considered and a third option would probably be best, one developed by someone with a lot more maturity.
-app103 (January 17, 2009, 05:47 AM)
--- End quote ---

Maybe whatever he does won't really affect your sales in a negative way, but what you do, will.

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