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Last post Author Topic: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust  (Read 49473 times)

Josh

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2009, 12:28:39 AM »
Quote
Extended Offer
Based on tremendous customer response SlySoft management has decided to extend both the current 20% promotion and lifetime free updates until Sunday, January 11 2009 to give everybody a chance to sneak a peak at 2009 prices and subscription fees for better comparison

It looks like slysoft has extended the lifetime license offer. I am hoping this isn't just a common thing they are going to do, I.E. continuously extending the lifetime offer indefinitely, but we shall see.

zridling

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #76 on: January 02, 2009, 11:35:53 AM »
Nice find. Thanks, Josh; let's hope that's the case.

sazzen

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2009, 05:51:41 PM »
 :) Such a heated discussion. I love it.  Here is my 2 pennies worth.

Back in the days when I was first enjoying shareware I didn't know Updates/Upgrades could be a problem. My first bad experience was with a PIM called Golden Section Notes. It was a troublesome program that periodically ate a few files. I periodically asked for help. I never got any. I did get notices for newer versions. One day, after installing the newer version, I couldn't get access to any of the kazillion files I had stored in it. Turned out that the newer version was an upGRADE not an upDATE. The company wouldn't help me get back to my old version because they said, "It isn't supported any more." So I was left in the dust with the mess.

My next negative experience was with Xplorer2. I understood the website to say it included lifetime updates. Shortly after I purchased it I received a notice that they were changing their policy etc., etc. and they kindly offered to sell me a lifetime upgrade license.  Would I trust that?  Certainly not.  I have learned a valuable lesson. I no longer trust anyone who claims to offer a lifetime license.  Who's lifetime? Mine? Theirs? Until they realize they need more regular income? Until their mood changes?

Certainly I understand that the people who write these programs need to generate income. All I am saying is that - If upGRADES will be charged for in the future, that should be made clear from the beginning. Updates (as I understand them are fixes), I should have to pay for them no more often than NEVER.

It has also been my experience that an upgrade isn't necessarily an improvement.  Often it is just more bloat, junk, or a change in the UI that I do not like. Several times I've backed up to a previous version. I've learned to keep the old setup exes whenever I venture into a newer version.

There are several mentions of pirating and expecting everything to be free in this thread. That's insulting. I never pirated anything in my life. Guess if I wanted to, I'd learn how it is done. Come to think of it, it might be a good idea given the current trend. Neither do I expect everything to be free - just affordable. If I can find a freebie program to use in place of a paid one - that I will soon have to pay for again - I will use the free one. I, and millions of others, don't have an unlimited supply of $. Income vs Outgo is as much an issue for us as any company. Shareware comes somewhere after food in our budgets. Lots of things are out of my reach and I will never purchase a yearly subscription to use an application. For rich folks, that's fine, for the rest of us it is idiocy. I doubt it will turn out to be a profitable direction for companies to head in, especially in these times.


f0dder

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2009, 08:01:05 PM »
I'm not a fan of companies changing license policies, and I don't find lifetime licenses very realistic... Imho a (reasonable) cost for major versions is the way to do, possibly combined with upgrade discounts. And major versions should be major - not just bumping because of some bugfixes.

Can't say I blame Nikos for sorta giving up on lifetime licenses, since that gives a pretty limited source of income. And xplorer2 is reasonably priced, imho. Still doesn't change the fact that changing license type is bad, though.
- carpe noctem

mwb1100

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2009, 10:17:09 PM »
I no longer trust anyone who claims to offer a lifetime license.  Who's lifetime? Mine? Theirs? Until they realize they need more regular income? Until their mood changes?

This reminds me of an SMC router I had several years back - it had a lifetime warranty, and when it failed one day and I tried to get warranty service I found out that the 'lifetime' of the warranty was the the marketing lifetime of the product.  Ie., since they didn't sell that model anymore, the warranty had expired.

I was actually more amused than angry at the use of the fine print - even though it was totally deceptive, I had to give them props for a clever deception.

Hirudin

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2009, 11:27:27 PM »
Why not just make it the "lifetime" of the exact unit you got? If the unit is broken, clearly its lifetime has run its course.

zridling

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2009, 12:34:09 AM »
Why not just make it the "lifetime" of the exact unit you got? If the unit is broken, clearly its lifetime has run its course.

That can easily be qualified to the consumer as a Limited Lifetime Warranty in that case. Much more honest. If a company isn't honest in its dealings with consumers, then they won't be in business long. Oh wait, that's not true now, is it?

mwb1100

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2009, 03:47:53 AM »
Why not just make it the "lifetime" of the exact unit you got? If the unit is broken, clearly its lifetime has run its course.

I can't believe this didn't cross my mind.  Clearly, we have the Ultimate Lifetime Guarantee (from the vendor's point of view) here!

Carol Haynes

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2009, 05:06:36 AM »
Outdoor clothing (eg. Goretex jackets) used to come with lifetime warranties (and some still do) but often the lifetime is "the lifetime of the product" - ie. if it is worn out, rather than a manufacturing or materials failure, then there is no warranty.

Having said that when I was working as a professional outdoor instructor and needed clothing to keep me dry all day, everyday in February weather I purchased a Marmot jacket (at the time it cost over £400) with a lifetime warranty. After 4 years it started to leak so I sent it back to Marmot (without much hope) but they sent me a brand new top of the range jacket almost by return of post (list price over £450) and I am still using that one! About 9 years later my £400 purchase that seemed excessive at the time now seems good value for money!

sazzen

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2009, 09:41:55 AM »
After participating in this discussion, I decided I should check on the update status of my Xplorer2 program and found that my year was up on October 7 of last year. So- I emailed them to find out if I can still download any updates that became available before my time was up.  :)

raybeere

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2009, 08:01:19 PM »
I think there are several issues here. One is the right of the developer to choose the license terms they wish to sell their product under. In this, I am with the developer: if they want to sell a simple file manager for a $2,500 per year subscription, I'd be surprised if they have any takers, but that's their right. Consumers can examine the terms, gasp in horror, and move on.

Changing the terms after the fact is a completely different issue. If I'm told I'm buying one thing, and it is suddenly changed to another, then I am bound to become annoyed. (I have seen one instance where the terms were not changed, but where the issue came up, and a lot of users volunteered to give up their lifetime licenses if that would help keep the product viable. I'd do so myself. That is different; if a developer says "I will honour my original terms, but I'm having difficulties and anyone who wishes to donate / buy a new license / whatever may do so" I have no problem with that at all.) If the terms are too confusing, well, it would depend on the exact situation how I felt personally, but I'd expect a lot of confused customers to be put off.

As for expecting things to be free: I, personally, don't expect them to be, but if someone chooses to offer software as freeware, I'm not going to turn them down just so I can buy commercial software, either. I tend to prefer freeware / donationware for several reasons. Most importantly, most of it seems to actually do what it is supposed to. I've paid $90 for software bloated with bells and whistles that wouldn't work right, then downloaded a nifty little tool offered as freeware that did just what I needed with no fuss. The second reason is because I can try it before I decide if it's worth anything. If I decide it is, I can donate to the author - although, if the author has provided the option to use it free of charge, they have no more reason to expect everyone to donate than I have to expect them to offer it free in the first place. My third reason is simply this: money is limited. I can't always afford what I need when I need it. So I can use freeware / donationware, then donate when I have more cash in hand. *

I'm not against donating for good software, not at all. I think the idea of DonationCoder is a great one. And I think more and more people are - slowly - beginning to understand that if you find something great, maybe it is a good idea to encourage that, even if you're not required to pay. And I understand it is tough for developers: unless they get a job with one of the "evil empires" :D I don't think many of them make much more than writers do. But they need to understand, if they offer the option of getting something free, some people will take it, either because they're greedy or just because they can't afford to do otherwise.

And, here is the important part: if they don't like the overall attitude of the public, they need to take steps to change that attitude. DC is one good idea in that direction. Is it enough? I don't know, but I do know the Internet offers any of us who are unhappy the chance to get a hearing. Get out there and blog, share your ideas, help the public understand why they should consider donating to developers. I'm not saying it's wrong to vent a little on a forum like this one, but if you really don't like the way it is, you've got to put your ideas out there, explain them, defend them, not among the folks who already understand what you're saying, but among the ones who don't. And you've got to find a way to do it that will reach them, not annoy them. The rest of this post is just my opinion, but this point isn't my opinion, it is how things work. No one else is going to make the changes you think they should unless you can first convince them why they should.

* So, for anyone who's on here who's written software I like, if you hear I've written a book, there's your reason to tell all your friends how great it is. If it becomes a best-seller, some of that goodness might just flow your way. :D
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 08:06:06 PM by raybeere »

cyberdiva

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #86 on: January 13, 2009, 09:27:52 PM »
Quote
Extended Offer
Based on tremendous customer response SlySoft management has decided to extend both the current 20% promotion and lifetime free updates until Sunday, January 11 2009 to give everybody a chance to sneak a peak at 2009 prices and subscription fees for better comparison

According to their website, SlySoft has now extended the offer until January 18, 2009.

J-Mac

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2009, 09:38:01 PM »
Quote
Extended Offer
Based on tremendous customer response SlySoft management has decided to extend both the current 20% promotion and lifetime free updates until Sunday, January 11 2009 to give everybody a chance to sneak a peak at 2009 prices and subscription fees for better comparison

According to their website, SlySoft has now extended the offer until January 18, 2009.

Thanks cyberdiva. I wonder what is driving Gordon w/all these extensions?

Jim

Josh

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2009, 02:12:14 AM »
It's called marketing. As I pointed out in another thread, and was attacked for, slysoft loves to give discount after discount (in the past) and act like the 20% was something special. It was a NORM for them to have a discount. Now, I have a feeling, that they are going to draw this out for a while before finally switching to the subscription model and then offering a 20% discount all the time.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 05:00:28 AM by Josh »

J-Mac

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2009, 03:24:58 AM »
It's called marketing. As I pointed out in another thread, and was attacked for, slysoft loves to give discount after discount (in the past) and act like the 20% was something special. It was a NORM for them to have a discount. Now, I have a feeling, that they are going to draw this out for a while before finally switching to the subscription model and then offering a 20% discount all the time.

Attacked you? Do you mean me?

If I did I must have been sleepwalking! Really though, I didn't notice. After all opinions are valid, expected, and welcome, right? If someone got "snippy" with you they must have just been having a bad hair day or something.  :D

Jim

Josh

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2009, 04:14:30 AM »
I wasn't being snippy, merely pointing out that this was a norm. I apologize if it came across that way, but it was not the intended tone or inflection for said post. And no, that was directed at no one in particular.

Darwin

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2009, 08:58:37 AM »
If someone got "snippy" with you they must have just been having a bad hair day or something.  :D

Jim

I wasn't being snippy, merely pointing out that this was a norm. I apologize if it came across that way, but it was not the intended tone or inflection for said post. And no, that was directed at no one in particular.

I think Jim was meaning that he possibly got snippy with you, not the other way around!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

sazzen

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2009, 09:36:17 AM »
After participating in this discussion, I decided I should check on the update status of my Xplorer2 program and found that my year was up on October 7 of last year. So- I emailed them to find out if I can still download any updates that became available before my time was up.  :)

I am told that I since there have been few additions to my current version (1.71) I can update to 1.72.  :)  I am pleased and that will do until I am ready/willing to purchase another Explorer replacement.

A few reasons for preferring Freeware: If my system crashes, I can just reinstall it - without having to contact the vendor with my proof of purchase (which may have been lost in the crash), without having to acquire another product key (which may or may not be available) - without having to explain (perhaps to no avail) why it looks like I'm using a different computer (if I'm not - it is even worse if I am) - without "activating".  I can install the program on my laptop (I don't have one yet but I am hoping). It would be pretty difficult to take what I call my "work" with me if the license only allows for use on one computer. I didn't even realize that would be an issue until I started pining for a laptop.

 

Paul Keith

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2009, 10:29:51 AM »
I think this topic highlights how marketing on the low end is still a quirky thing to do properly. You never know when the same incentives you used to draw a customer in is the same thing you need to gradually draw out or else the sudden transition will alienate most of your current users.

As it was written in the end of chapter 2:

Quote
Some people are better at starting a business than they are at running a business.

mouser

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2009, 10:33:12 AM »
ooh, that looks like good reading! thanks for the link.  :up:

phitsc

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #95 on: April 15, 2009, 07:47:00 AM »
I had such an experience with a product called BreezeBrowser (an image viewer). I bought a license that came with lifetime upgrades. Then, one day, the author of that product presented 'BreezeBrowser Pro', which was the exact same thing as BreezeBrowser, but now had the typical one-year upgrade policy. Although BreezeBrowser would officially get further support, new features would only be added to the Pro version. Although I was generally happy with how the software worked (and didn't actually needed any new features at that time), the way the BreezeBrowser author chose to make that license change annoyed me that much that I stopped using the software altogether.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #96 on: April 15, 2009, 08:29:21 AM »
Ditto - I used BreezeBrowser and dropped it for the same reason.

zridling

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2009, 12:21:30 PM »
I bought a license that came with lifetime upgrades. Then, one day, the author of that product presented 'BreezeBrowser Pro', which was the exact same thing as BreezeBrowser, but now had the typical one-year upgrade policy.... Although I was generally happy with how the software worked (and didn't actually needed any new features at that time), the way the BreezeBrowser author chose to make that license change annoyed me that much that I stopped using the software altogether.

This is why authors should not offer a lifetime license if they don't have the means to sustain it. I went nuts when SlySoft AnyDVD came out with AnyDVD HD five days after I had just purchased the license, claiming it was a new and separate product that required new costs and registration for current lifetime users, when all they did was add blu-ray functionality. It really wasn't worth it. If I can't watch it online or with a common codec, there are other things that interest me.

Josh

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2009, 12:45:37 PM »
Zaine, The HD product IS NEW. Just because BRD and HD-DVD share the same optical disc format does not mean they are the same technology. That is what people are confusing about this product. AnyDVD and AnyDVD HD are for two different product lines. DVD continues to receive updates in line with its LIFETIME license for UPDATES. BRD is a radically different product and the changes warranted, in my opinion, a new product. This is part of where I was coming with the entitled generation. Just because a new product line came out does not mean you are entitled to it for free. Updates were promised and updates are being delivered. BRD is NOT THE SAME as DVD so that is an UPGRADE. You are still receiving updates for the DVD product, which is what you paid for. If you don't need BRD/HD-DVD, then the product line should not matter to you until you obtain HD technology, which to me sounds like you don't care about since you view it online.

CWuestefeld

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Re: Another 'Lifetime' license bites the dust
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2009, 01:24:23 PM »
AnyDVD and AnyDVD HD are for two different product lines.
That's obviously not true based on the capabilities of the two. HD is a superset of AnyDVD, they are not disjoint sets at all.

Slysoft should have created a new product AnyHD that cannot do DVD at all, and then package with every license of AnyHD a free license to AnyDVD so that its users can do DVDs as well.

This would have created a whole separate mindset, as each product would operate on wholly different sets of media. If you've go an X, you must use AnyX. But as it is, AnyDVD HD can do whatever AnyDVD (regular) does, plus some extra, so it certainly looks as if the HD version is an upgrade to the functionality of the previous version.

Of course HD (and BRD) is not the same as DVD. If it were the same, then no upgrade would be necessary. But Slysoft added new functionality to allow it to handle the high def formats. The fact that they added new functionality is what makes it an upgrade. (Upgrade: v., to improve what was old or outdated). People paid for lifetime upgrades.