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Last post Author Topic: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?  (Read 28498 times)

40hz

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2008, 03:10:19 PM »
Quote from: 40hz
Should I go on?

Yes, preferably a long trip!  ;D

Hey! I just noticed it's pretty damp at this end of the pier! ;D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 03:19:49 PM by 40hz »

Edvard

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2008, 03:21:09 PM »
Oh, what have we done?

Then one day at DEVCON, while the Sneetches of PC
were moping, just moping after Jobs' keynote at three,
sitting there, wishing their bellies had logos,
up zipped a stranger in the strangest of Volvos.

"My friends, " he announced in a voice clear and non-heinous,
"My name is Torvalds, first name of Linus"
I've heard of your troubles; I've heard of your burden.
But I can fix that; I've got a new kernel version.
I've come here to help you; I have what you need.
My prices are low, and my licence is freed,
and my work is one tenth of one cent guaranteed."


cranioscopical

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2008, 03:24:34 PM »
Come to think of it, am I looking to get sued just in time for the holidays?
Sued, or stewed?  ;)

40hz

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2008, 03:32:04 PM »


Ed, I was waiting for that! (And thinking much the same thing about where to take it.)

"Great minds think alike." :Thmbsup:

Of course my GF puts it a different way. "When it comes to The Gutter - every street always has two."


sneechestux.gif

40hz

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2008, 05:07:59 PM »
Come to think of it, am I looking to get sued just in time for the holidays?
Sued, or stewed?  ;)

That's burned either way, I'm afraid. 8)

steeladept

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2008, 11:28:13 PM »
No worries, it is parody.  That is protected....now stewed, that may be a problem... :P

Lovin' the story though.  Sure to make other Blogs once it is put together.

Kamel

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2008, 03:35:34 PM »
You guys may not have the balls to say that "linux is better", but I certainly do. There are thousands of quantitative reasons, which can be very easily argued among computer science literate individuals of why linux and the linux kernel is _FAR_ superior to windows. This isn't just something computer scientists argue that means nothing to the end user, it just means that the regular computer user simply does not understand these concepts, and if they did they would probably just revolt with senseless nonsense like "so, that's not important", when if properly adopted it would be very important.

Here are a few reasons why linux is far superior to windows in design. First and foremost, linux has found what is wrong with windows and fixed it. This is something linux can do because users of linux are phenomenal at fast adaptation of changes in standards. Windows users, however, are phenomenal at slow-to-no adaptation of new standards. If a change in windows will negatively affect a business, it will not happen in windows. Linux, however, is different. This is just a concept, lets get to tooth and nail differences that make one superior.

Preemptive multitasking. Basically means linux can not crash unless the kernel crashes. Very important for many reasons. How many times you had to reboot your computer because of a hung app? Even though it's gotten better, windows still yet does not use preemptive multitasking. Windows relies on processes being 'polite', and giving the processor to each other when needed, while the linux kernel gives a process a set time for holding the processor before the kernel retrieves the processor back. No matter the 'opinion' of the process, it can not hold the processor longer than it has been allotted.

Everything is a program. Meaning, Linux can be less than 2MB in size for a fully functional Linux operating system. Windows can't do this, not even its compact edition.

Portability. Linux can be ran, easily and natively, on basically every CPU architecture made. It can run on a powerpc mac, it can run on x86 windows processor, a RISC chip in mobile devices, the list goes on. This is something that windows and mac both can definitely not say. Yea, it can be ported, but this takes a long tedious time. The linux kernel just needs recompiling with the drivers for the device loaded. This calls for rapid deployment on a very wide range of new devices.

Linux can be as big or as little as necessary (see portability), meaning it can pretty much run on any computer ever made, or any embedded device, for that matter. One look at Windows Vista requirements, and it becomes obvious to you very quickly that Vista was not designed with older PC's in mind. Windows XP, for that matter, has quite steep system requirements when compared to its predecessor Win98. I know you're going to say windows has gotten better, and hardware has too, making it make sense to require more resources.... save it, I'm not an idiot, I know this. What you fail to realize though is that basically this means older PC's can't run anything but windows 98, which is no longer supported officially by microsoft meaning that viruses and so on run rampid. Basically this means there is no way in a 'windows-user' mind to be able to use an old PC such as that. Suddenly, this means that the computer is useless and must be thrown out. What was that about saving the environment you were just on about? Do you realize just how many toxins are in PC's? Especially older ones.

There are many other reasons, but I'm too lazy to go on and I need to get some things done before the sun goes down. My primary point in this whole thing is that Linux *IS* better, in many ways than windows. As far as design, it's basically like comparing a regular built house to a hurricane resistant built home on the coast of Miami. Yea, one can argue (lol) that the regular house is "better", since "better" is a relative term, but from an engineering standpoint there is absolutely positively no comparison.

The primary reasons Windows excels beyond Linux so well is because it is made with commercialism as its number 1 concern. Linux, however, is not. Therefore, it may never be commercially fit (unless that very thing changes). Linux has too many arguments, and has a problem with coordination and no "feature freezes" of the linux operating system as a whole. If you simply say you are using linux, this means nothing at all as Linux is not unified. If you say "I'm using windows XP", however, that really means something because windows XP is a very strongly unified body of code. This is the simple and pure advantage windows has on linux, and its so strong that while linux may get bigger, I seriously doubt it will ever take over unless there is commercialism as a primary driving means. Commercialism prioritizes things that linux not only does not care about, but outright refutes, such as everyone using one way to do something. It only takes 1 linux user thinking there is a better way and making that 'better way' to create 2 ways to do something, meaning after you are doing something that requires a program standing on the shoulders of 20 apps, you have something to the effect of 20^2 different software configurations to get to that point, and any number of things could be going wrong. This essentially makes it so that people are damn near impossible to figure out exactly what the problem is with their linux system and how to fix it the best way. This is difficult even in the extremely unified windows and many times results in a system restore/reformat. Linux just makes it exponentially harder due to its lack of unification.

It's because of these reasons that Linux is not well adapted, and it's because of that reason that commercial developers care very little about their software running on Linux. This puts Linux at a double fatal downfall. Few things are designed for it, hardware or software, and Linux does not care for commercialism currently meaning it will never grow to become a commercial product.
I'm the guy you yell at when your DSL goes down...

f0dder

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2008, 08:31:11 PM »
Quote
Preemptive multitasking. Basically means linux can not crash unless the kernel crashes.
That's not what pre-emptive multitasking means.

What it means is that the whole system won't hang if a thread doesn't Yield() (or does a system call that yields). It's entirely possible to make a pre-emptively scheduled OS that can be crashed by non-kernel processes (ie., you could run everything at ring0 privilege). Btw, windows has been pre-emptive since win9x.

Quote
How many times you had to reboot your computer because of a hung app?
Since win9x, never. Because of a BSOD? Since NT, only because of badly written drivers.

Quote
Even though it's gotten better, windows still yet does not use preemptive multitasking.
Please do your research.

Quote
Everything is a program. Meaning, Linux can be less than 2MB in size for a fully functional Linux operating system. Windows can't do this, not even its compact edition.
While "Windows" as a whole isn't super-modular, you can get the windows kernel below... what was is... a couple hundred kilobytes? (check the original stripped-down NT kernel used in the XBOX).

Quote
Portability. Linux can be ran, easily and natively, on basically every CPU architecture made. It can run on a powerpc mac, it can run on x86 windows processor, a RISC chip in mobile devices, the list goes on. This is something that windows and mac both can definitely not say. Yea, it can be ported, but this takes a long tedious time. The linux kernel just needs recompiling with the drivers for the device loaded. This calls for rapid deployment on a very wide range of new devices.
For linux to be recompiled, first GCC + binutil + libc + <other stuff> needs to be ported. Then there's a few (or more) kernel modifications that need to be done. You're trivializing the porting process, which is nowhere near as simple as you're claiming. Sure, NT doesn't run on as many platforms as linux does, but because of it's HAL design it can be ported pretty well. Because of it's commercial nature, it isn't ported where there isn't a demand, though. This does, however, include the Alpha, x86, x86-64, Itanium, Itanium2, ARM (iirc) and some other handheld devices. So it's not like NT isn't portable, it's just that it's not ported where there isn't a (strong) demand).

Quote
Linux can be as big or as little as necessary (see portability), meaning it can pretty much run on any computer ever made, or any embedded device, for that matter.
Try getting it to run on an 8-bit embedded controller - good luck. Even if it's possible, it'd be in such a stripped-down state that it doesn't make much sense, and you'd be better off running a custom OS.

Quote
One look at Windows Vista requirements, and it becomes obvious to you very quickly that Vista was not designed with older PC's in mind. Windows XP, for that matter, has quite steep system requirements when compared to its predecessor Win98.
Now you're comparing a kernel (linux) to a full OS (Windows). There's quite a difference between those concepts... even the Vista kernel could be ported to a lot of different architectures. It's default settings are tweaked with modern machines in mind (following the BSD mentality of "unused RAM is wasted RAM").

Btw, try running a full modern linux distribution on the hardware that would accomodate win98 before making any silly claims :)

If you look at a the argument with OS design in mind (and actually knew something about it), you'd realize that (while linux has gotten better) the NT system still has the upper hand. How many linux distributions have (stable!) support for ACLS? How far is the progress of moving video mode switching (and other fundamental stuff) from usermode to the linux kernel? How far has integrated sound and video support come? et cetera. There's so many places where linux currently lags behind, both as a kernel and as an operating system. Most don't matter if you're only casually surfing the web or writing some documents or watching pr0n, but compared to what a Windows or Mac system can do... there's a looooooooong way of catching up.
- carpe noctem

zridling

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2008, 08:53:14 PM »
You guys may not have the balls to say that "linux is better", but I certainly do. There are thousands of quantitative reasons, which can be very easily argued among computer science literate individuals of why linux and the linux kernel is _FAR_ superior to windows.

We have the balls to start that argument, but the question is, will we solve it? Absolutely not. That MY-OS-IS-BEST argument plays in many different flavors, depending on who you are and what you do with a computer. Since the Linux vs. Windows (vs. Mac) argument is ongoing -- I've seen Mac and Microsoft go at it for almost 25 years and both are still there, as Linux has been since '94 and will be -- the argument is never finished. To me, there are better ways to spend my time.

My own argument is not which OS you use, but can I collaborate with you? I'd rather my OS seek to establish interoperability among products built to the IETF, OASIS, HTML 5, World Wide Web Consortium, and other standards. Other questions one should ask are:
 -- Do I have the freedom to leave?
 -- Are my data portable?
 -- Do interoperable products for the 'product class' exist; that is, are they interchangeable?

Software interchangeability goes beyond formats, protocols, APIs, user interface, and operating system support, and also includes in-application programmability. Note that these issues apply not just to standalone desktop applications but also to software delivered through a web browser. Does your choice of OS promote this concept or does it frustrate it?

The primary reasons Windows excels beyond Linux so well is because it is made with commercialism as its number 1 concern.... Few things are designed for it, hardware or software, and Linux does not care for commercialism currently meaning it will never grow to become a commercial product.

Ah, the No Free Lunch reason is alive and well. The "cloud" is largely a marketing myth promoted to give false hope to customers who will only later discover that implementations, not standards, dictate costs. Otherwise it is merely a race where the fastest company to market is not permitted to outpace the slowest gazelle, or as it's playing out right now, the company with the deepest pockets can give away the most services, and by doing so, dominates the market until everyone else's pockets are empty.

(See Sun.)

Microsoft can't buy Linux. It can't sue it for patent infringement (it's threatened to, but it has no case there). Microsoft can't sell Windows cheaper than Linux, since it's already free. And it can't outspend Linux. Because of the portability and scalability you mention, Linux is already built for the cloud, for mobile, for netbooks, for mainframes, for large Hadron Colliders, and so on. Windows has to be retooled for a netbook, and even then, you're going to get an 8-year old version of their last OS that will cost you at least $150-$200. Traditional, big corporate takeover attack methods don't apply to Linux, so the whole damn enterprise that is 'Linux' leaves Redmond frustrated and feeling threatened, not on the desktop of course, but on the server side, where the real money is.
______________________
The best thing Microsoft could do would be to make sure Win7 is the opposite of what Vista was. Win7 doesn't have to be perfect. All it has to do is be lighter and faster, and less annoying in some areas (UAC, Explorer, fewer than a half dozen versions). If they do this, they'll be fine, and a billion people will be happy again.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 09:00:54 PM by zridling »

40hz

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2008, 09:14:15 PM »
You guys may not have the balls to say that "linux is better", but I certainly do. There are thousands of quantitative reasons, which can be very easily argued among computer science literate individuals of why linux and the linux kernel is _FAR_ superior to windows. This isn't just something computer scientists argue that means nothing to the end user, it just means that the regular computer user simply does not understand these concepts, and if they did they would probably just revolt with senseless nonsense like "so, that's not important", when if properly adopted it would be very important.

***

There are many other reasons, but I'm too lazy to go on and I need to get some things done before the sun goes down. My primary point in this whole thing is that Linux *IS* better, in many ways than windows. As far as design, it's basically like comparing a regular built house to a hurricane resistant built home on the coast of Miami. Yea, one can argue (lol) that the regular house is "better", since "better" is a relative term, but from an engineering standpoint there is absolutely positively no comparison.

Balls? Balls? We don't need no steenking balls!

Wow! I haven't heard somebody spouting the old "party line" so vociferously in many a moon. And I'm a long-time Linux user that hangs with a pretty hard-core NIX/FOSS crowd. ;D

I'm going to ignore several logical and technical errors in your posting and merely offer this in response:

I think you need to reread this thread. The topic under discussion is not the relative superiority of one OS to another; but rather the factors that influence the adoption of a technical solution, and it's subsequent establishment as the sui generis standard.

If you take a look at the history of technical innovation and adoption, you'll quickly see that technical superiority is seldom the deciding factor. In fact, in many instances, it was not a factor at all.

-------------

BTW: Welcome to the thread! :)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 09:17:14 PM by 40hz »

Kamel

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2008, 10:29:53 PM »
Sorry if my post wasn't completely accurate. My studies on the workings of linux are aging and it's showing. My memories of it are beginning to fade and I can no longer present a 100% accurate to book argument about it, and I am too lazy to research the topics as they come up.

Ultimately, I don't see any of you doing much better, however. I wont go through and quote all of your quotes as you did mine, because I value my time more than that. The arguments brought up against what I have had to say, however, are pretty weak. There is a power with Linux, just admit that. I have admitted that Windows is better in many aspects, so I don't see why you can't throw Linux a bone too.

I wont argue with people who are unable to think from a neutral standpoint on the subject, as I am willing and able to do. I say these things not as a linux or windows advocate, I actually hate both equally. Mac is no where near something I love, either. I have an appreciation for all operating systems, but there isn't one that I truly love beyond others. Are there OS's I think are better? Yea, I clearly stated that in the beginning of my post when I said that Linux is better, and I truly still think it is. Some of my examples may be flawed, but there are a million more where they come from. Ultimately, Linux puts power in the hands of its users, whereas Windows does not, and this is where the power of Linux comes into play. Linux does many things way differently... And in many ways, "better". Linux is normally the first to adopt new things such as IPv6, and is inherently more secure.

Your whole analogy about a more complicated mouse trap verses a more complicated trap is absolutely positively untrue. If you disagree yourself, then why does Windows Vista try to implement new administration features which mirror that of the way Linux has worked from its outset? Linux and BSD have both worked very well to box things in, keep things seperate, jailed, etc. While Windows has more or less been on a model of personal computer 1 account 1 user etc. Sure it has multiple user accounts, but support for multiple users and multiple access privileges on a PC are very weak, especially when compared to strong user systems such as any *NIX style OS.

BTW, sorry about being wrong about preemptive multitasking not being available on Windows. I am well capable of making mistakes, and did not intend for my post here to be taken as a college thesis. Had I truly been wanting to make a case of windows vs linux, I would certainly give it more time and attention as well as site all of my sources. That isn't my intent, rather my intent is to let others know my *opinion* (take it or leave it) about the topic. Quickly stated, my opinion is that in many ways Linux is better (and therefore is overall *better*), but I also feel it will never take over as a dominant operating system. Disagree all you like, but truth does indeed support my opinion of it.

Finally, I'd like to say just because I believe Linux is overall "better" than Windows doesn't mean I dislike Windows, or believe it's a terrible OS. I feel it will stay in the lead, and I am more than happy with it doing that. I like windows, and I really don't think its ease of use is behind anything. Windows is a master at allowing a user to truly feel in control, even of powerful easy to do tweaks and such without a heck of a lot of knowledge or effort on the users behalf. The same is most definitely not true (in my opinion) when it comes to Linux.
I'm the guy you yell at when your DSL goes down...

f0dder

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2008, 02:12:25 AM »
Quote from: Kamel
Linux is normally the first to adopt new things such as IPv6, and is inherently more secure.
How is linux "inherently more secure" than NT? The NT-style ACL based permissions (based on what VMS had) are a lot more flexible than traditional *u*x user/group style permissions, and both linux and BSD have tried copying that during the last few years, but it still isn't a "standard" feature supported by all distros. As for the security aspect, what makes linux "more secure"?

NT can run with limited user accounts (and people have been doing that since the early 90es) - it's a shame there's a lot of poorly written software that wants administrative privileges, but that really is the fault of uneducated programmers who haven't been adhering to the rules Microsoft have outlined in their documentation.

Quote from: Kamel
If you disagree yourself, then why does Windows Vista try to implement new administration features which mirror that of the way Linux has worked from its outset?
The only feature I can think of that you could be referring to is UAC, and that isn't really equivalent to anything linux had has since "it's outset". You could argue that UAC is just "sudo" (which it is indeed similar to), but it's more than that as well.

Quote from: Kamel
While Windows has more or less been on a model of personal computer 1 account 1 user etc. Sure it has multiple user accounts, but support for multiple users and multiple access privileges on a PC are very weak, especially when compared to strong user systems such as any *NIX style OS.
NT's user/group/permission system is actually a lot stronger and more flexible than what *u*x traditionally had, the big flaw is that Win9x was allowed to live beyond Win95, and that it took until Vista to make the default user account non-administrative. Because of this, a lot of crappy programmers (hobbyists as well as professionals) have made too many assumptions, and made it harder to run as a non-administrative user (or without having a lot of UAC pop-ups on Vista). Some of that can be fixed by modifying NTFS and registry ACLs, though.

Quote from: Kamel
Quickly stated, my opinion is that in many ways Linux is better (and therefore is overall *better*),
You just haven't pointed out any areas where linux is actually better, though :)

IMHO having an open-source kernel is a nice thing, and I wouldn't mind if Windows had that. Open-source drivers are also nice, although I don't see that as an absolute necessity (I can understand why nvidia and AMD/ATI want to guard at least part of their drivers - R&D costs a lot of money). I also certainly wouldn't mind having a much more modular and flexible operating system (the NT kernel itself allows for quite a deal of flexibility, but the OS install doesn't).

On the other hand there's a lot of things about linux I'm not a fan of. Like that lack of a unified configuration format (/etc/messy-files-with-a-zillion-formats instead of the registry), a pretty incoherent filesystem layout, the horrible X Windowing system (and the horrible X11/XOrg implementations of it, please do move graphics drivers to the core OS with proper kernel support), etc...
- carpe noctem

Ehtyar

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2009, 01:09:27 AM »
I started reading this thread about 10 minutes, so please forgive my dated replies.
I'm afraid I can't subscribe to this IE/FF metaphor gentlemen. As a sysadmin, I'm bound to windows as a part of my job.
I am, however, free to choose my browser. Why? Because my browser is not nearly as central to the use of my machine as my operating system is. Nor does it create nearly the level of compatibility problems using Linux in a Windows workplace would (fortunately most webmasters have had the foresight to steer clear of ActiveX in-browser).

Nor can I concur with the comparison to QWERTY/DVORAK. If you have a problem with Linux, you search for a solution and you fix it. If you don't know how to do something in Linux, you search for instructions and you follow them.
If you move to DVORAK, you're completely on your own. Not only that, but if you've been typing 50 WPM in QWERTY, how do you then function typing 20 WPM in DVORAK?
On a more personal note, there's a gentleman where I work that uses DVORAK on his work laptop. Since I've been there (almost 3 months now) I've had to reset his password 4 times. That does not include any occasion when my boss has done it. I've not yet had to reset the password of any other member of staff more than once.

Ehtyar.

P.S. Yay 40hz and Edvard :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

zridling

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2009, 11:33:30 AM »
Ehtyar, but much like your native language, had you started out using a DVORAK keyboard, you'd likely have the same learning curve with a QWERTY keyboard. There's only three [desktop] apps that stay open all day on my computer: (1) browser, (2) file manager, and (3) text editor. Everything else is at-hand when I need it, or in the cloud, accessed through #1, the browser.
____________
Oddly, kids say they prefer simple keypads to larger QWERTY pads on mobile devices. I presume it has something to do with their netspeak, or whatever the term for the slang is.

f0dder

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2009, 04:50:44 PM »
Oddly, kids say they prefer simple keypads to larger QWERTY pads on mobile devices. I presume it has something to do with their netspeak, or whatever the term for the slang is.
QWERY keypads are inefficient on mobile devices. Either they become big and clumsy (and requires moving your fingers "large" distances == slower typing, potential strain) or the keys become way too small (hard to hit). The standard 12-key pad (8 keys with characters, 4 for controlling case, space, special chars) combined with the efficiency of T9 dictionaries makes it very fast and efficient to write text messages - even without resorting to the ugly SMS language that teens (and, sad to say, some adults) use.
- carpe noctem

Shades

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2009, 06:01:45 PM »
[rant]

T9 transforms any language into trash and is the first thing that gets disabled, those dictionaries are useless, if you would ask me.

Come to think of it, T9 will be viewed in the history time-line as most important thing that brings all (major) global languages together into the same trash heap.

Sorry for my (bit of) ranting, but I came from a school that deducted a full point of reports that had to be written (yes, not typed...written). You got fast in thinking how to be as clear as possible, you needed to know the grammatical and spelling rules (instead of the text editor) and you also learned a bit of calligraphy as well.

This was not so bad but you needed to write at least four of those 5-page reports each week while being swamped by 19 other classes each requiring at least 2 hours of homework and 40-hours of school per week as well.

Mainly the reasoning behind those reports were that you always should be able to write a decent report, because technical reports with errors inside them are never taken seriously in a field of peers. And right they were.

Which is also why I don't take people serious when they write a T9 message (with or without errors) to my cellphone. Honestly, they would be lucky if they even get any response from me. If you want to write me, do it in an e-mail, my phone is able to handle those.

Slashdot had a nice article about how telecom providers rip you off (I should have said: r*pe) with what they charge for each and any of those messages. 

[/rant]

f0dder

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2009, 06:18:57 PM »
I know that SMS data is transferred in the "control channels", but does that mean there's no telco peering costs involved? Even if there is, I'm still pretty confident that it's super overprice. But it's extremely handy, and not everybody has super fancy phones with email capabilities (GPRS/EDGE traffic is insanely expensive too, btw) - personally I'm back on a Nokia 3310 after my SE k750i died.

I don't agree with you that T9 is a bad thing, not at all actually. I really hate "R", "U" and all that SMS-speak, but that's not the fault of T9 (au contraire, actually - T9 makes it possible to write proper words). Kiddos use that kind of writing even when they're on a proper keyboard, and when there's no time-pressure (ie, forum posts or email as opposed to instant messaging). Fortunately, a lot of them grow out of the habit.

Not taking SMS seriously is imho a bit too elitist - as long as you aren't faced with inane babble like "wat r u doin?" :)
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Ehtyar

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2009, 06:38:09 PM »
I used to have a RAZR (never again) and the predictive text was utterly tragic. Most everyone who knows me knows I don't do SMS, but since I got my new Nokia 6300, SMS is almost a pleasure to write (I'll never get into them big time, they're a complete ripoff, but they're handy on the rare ocasion). The predictive text even heightens the order in which common words you use are typed. Nokia has struck gold IMO with their predictive text.

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Shades

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2009, 11:20:20 PM »
Here in Paraguay the official language is Spanish, but not the European version. The unofficial language that everybody speaks is Guarani (especially when you set one foot outside the capital). Have you any idea how hard it is to get something from a message when both languages are mixed together and words are shortened to one character?

To me it is a royal pain in the (insert here other word for donkey), so to speak.

Elitist...never looked at it that way, though.  :-[ 

Again, to me it is only natural to take the time to write something properly. Grammar and spelling, I mean. Content is a whole other matter. And use a proper medium to do deliver the message. 160 characters is not that much when trying to convey a message properly in my point of view.

f0dder

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2009, 11:27:31 PM »
Shades: I feel your pain :), but imho that's the fault of the lazy people not typing properly, rather than the technology. Obviously you're not going to write a love letter or novel using SMS (well, some people are, but...) - but it's very suitable for things like "Do you want to come by my place tomorrow for dinner and a movie?", "what's the homework for tomorrow?", "I'll be arriving by train at 14, please pick me up". Short and concise messages, without all the formality-blabber a phone conversation usually includes.
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Kamel

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Re: Why Windows Rules: the QWERTY phenomenon?
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2009, 10:26:38 PM »
Bah, sorry, I went and forgot all about this post. Well, like I said, it's been a long time since I've been deep in study on this subject and just to 'prove' to some strangers with no real benefit to me or Linux isn't compelling enough for me to write a well documented point in case about Linux and the reasons it's superior, and thus to fully explain myself, the reasons it's inferior. It's a great thing and has its place, but its place isn't necessarily on the mainstream PC for many reasons. It is possible that perhaps that will change someday, but only if there is a drastic change which is usually triggered by something.

I appreciate linux for all that it is, but a Windows replacement is not what it is.
I'm the guy you yell at when your DSL goes down...