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Last post Author Topic: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)  (Read 99815 times)

Edvard

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #175 on: January 31, 2009, 05:55:39 AM »
I hear you, Edvard. I need another flavour of Windows like I need a hole in the head, but the hype does have me curious
Amen.
Make him get a job to pay for a copy? That might make that Linux DVD look a little sweeter. (Microsoft still plays nasty with your MBR with Win7.)
;D
He's only 11, but a hard worker already (I owe him about $100 for all the odd jobs I 'hired' him for this past summer - works better than giving him an allowance...)
He's already fairly proficient with his Mac G4 running Ubuntu and is beginning to understand some command-line stuff. I kinda wonder what he'll think of Windows 7.
Too bad about the MBR shenanigans, I was wondering about that. Booting a GAG CD ought to clear it right up...

On a further note, I took my USB drive home, partitioned and formatted a second hard drive and copied the W7 files to it. Then I rebooted and told Grub to chainload.
It worked! Sorta.
It booted up the installation program and for a second looked like it was going to work. Then it complained about not being able to find "install.wim" (it's in there, in the 'sources' folder...) so I'm stuck on that front. More later...

zridling

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #176 on: February 02, 2009, 04:09:28 PM »
Yet another positive Win7 report from the field.

"Pacific Crest Securities equity researchers today write that Microsoft’s (MSFT) forthcoming Windows 7 is 'a dramatic improvement over Vista' and that it has 'implications for the technology sector' beyond just what it will do for Microsoft... 'the increased speed and stability, relative to previous Windows iterations, are striking […] Everything seems to run faster and more smoothly.'"

If you've been using the beta, you'll likely agree. And since people are likely to sit on this [7] version as long as they did XP, it might be wise for Microsoft to reconsider charging for service pack upgrades, similar to what Apple does with OS X upgrades.

Edvard

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #177 on: February 02, 2009, 08:34:15 PM »
News: Windows 7 Beta Media Player may corrupt mp3's when using Auto-Tag something-or-other.
From Neowin:
Quote
Approximately 2-3 seconds will get shaved off the beginning of MP3s if you have set your Windows Media Player 12 settings to retrieve information from the internet and update files. The default configuration for WMP12 sets this if you use the "express" option during setup.

"The problem only happens when you edit metadata on a certain class of MP3 file (a file with a header larger than 16KB). When the new metadata is written, it corrupts the beginning of the file. This can happen either when you edit the metadata from inside WMP or Explorer, or it can happen if you have WMP set to automatically fill in missing metadata using the online service and add the MP3 to your library.
Patch here: http://www.microsoft...7&DisplayLang=en
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 10:50:10 AM by Edvard »

zridling

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #178 on: February 02, 2009, 11:11:53 PM »
Also found this critic site, which hopes to avoid some of the problems that occurred during Vista RC1, where reports were ignored all the way to gold. Most of them revolve around improving Windows Explorer.

http://windows7critics.blogspot.com/

f0dder

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #179 on: February 03, 2009, 12:49:29 AM »
News: Windows 7 may corrupt your mp3's.
Patch here: http://www.microsoft...7&DisplayLang=en
That is such a lame headline... Windows Media Player in Win7 can corrupt your MP3s if you use the auto-tag update crap... it's not "Windows 7" doing this.
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Ehtyar

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #180 on: February 03, 2009, 03:50:49 AM »
Had they published "Windows Media Player Corrupts Your MP3s", you'd be accusing them of the same. The headline they currently have is the most accurate without being redundant IMO.

Ehtyar.

f0dder

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #181 on: February 03, 2009, 03:58:44 AM »
Had they published "Windows Media Player Corrupts Your MP3s", you'd be accusing them of the same. The headline they currently have is the most accurate without being redundant IMO.
No I wouldn't, because that's correct and non-sensationalist. Claiming that the operating system corrupts your MP3s has a lot of implications, like "OMFG IT'S NEW ÜBER-DRM!".
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justice

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #182 on: February 03, 2009, 04:47:55 AM »
That's not even news is it, about 4 weeks ago that was the case - that's been patched when windows 7 public first appeared it automatically got the patch from windows update.

Hirudin

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #183 on: February 03, 2009, 05:06:22 AM »
...
2- The Win7 ISO is 4.6 Gigabytes... 600 Megabytes too large for the USB media.
...
How?
Screenshot - 2_3_2009 , 4_03_02 AM.png

That headline gave me second thoughts about installing W7, but after reading it and seeing that it is actually WMP12 (or whatever number they're on) that has the issue I stopped caring. I don't use WMP.

Seems like "Windows Media Player 7 May Corrupt Your MP3s" is a lot more descriptive than "Windows 7 May Corrupt Your MP3s". The warning in that headline is about as helpful as Google's apparent warnings about the whole internet.

40hz

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #184 on: February 03, 2009, 06:30:52 AM »
Had they published "Windows Media Player Corrupts Your MP3s", you'd be accusing them of the same. The headline they currently have is the most accurate without being redundant IMO.
No I wouldn't, because that's correct and non-sensationalist. Claiming that the operating system corrupts your MP3s has a lot of implications, like "OMFG IT'S NEW ÜBER-DRM!".

That's correct. But to a certain extent, Microsoft brings it on itself with their continued insistence on incorporating non-OS elements into their OS installation. And then they further muddy up the waters insisting that they are essential parts of the OS. (Take a look at some of their their arguments to the EU as to why they shouldn't be made unbundle Internet Explorer if you don't believe it.)

If all of their add-ons (IE, WMP, etc. etc. etc.) were just placed in an optional (and separate) Microsoft Desktop installation, we wouldn't be having this problem. Microsoft's server installers already do it this way.

Allowing a more granular approach to component installation is what's needed.

Just don't hold your breath waiting for it on the desktop. :huh:


Carol Haynes

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #185 on: February 03, 2009, 06:37:58 AM »
Are you arguing that WMP is not part of the OS (in which case I agree) but having said that I hate the DRM content in Windows but much prefer it to the problems that would arise if MS left it up to individual companies to implement their own DRM systems - do you really want Sony installing software on your system (or any of the other media companies) when you want to play a CD, DVD or BluRay disc? Can you imagine that havoc that would ensue if they all started trying to put kernel level DRM on to a system without cross testing their products? If Windows Media Player is part of the DRM solution in Windows then I'd rather have that present.

As for IE there was a recent article (sorry can't find it now) about the EU insisting that if MS won't remove IE from Windows they will be forced top inlcude the other major browsers on the desktop in the EU.

Edvard

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #186 on: February 03, 2009, 10:14:15 AM »
OK guys, geez... Sorrrrrry.
Didn't mean to stir up the hornet's nest, it's just something I noticed and thought should be brought to attention, it's easily fixed, the whole damn thing is BETA anyways, YMMV, etc, ad nauseum...



Edit: Fixed post.

Darwin

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #187 on: February 03, 2009, 12:52:36 PM »
OK guys, geez... Sorrrrrry.
Didn't mean to stir up the hornet's nest, it's just something I noticed and thought should be brought to attention, it's easily fixed, the whole damn thing is BETA anyways, YMMV, etc, ad nauseum...



Edit: Fixed post.

Naughty Edvard!

PS  :P :-*
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40hz

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #188 on: February 03, 2009, 01:11:29 PM »
Are you arguing that WMP is not part of the OS (in which case I agree)

Yes I am.


Quote
but having said that I hate the DRM content in Windows but much prefer it to the problems that would arise if MS left it up to individual companies to implement their own DRM systems - do you really want Sony installing software on your system (or any of the other media companies) when you want to play a CD, DVD or BluRay disc? Can you imagine that havoc that would ensue if they all started trying to put kernel level DRM on to a system without cross testing their products? If Windows Media Player is part of the DRM solution in Windows then I'd rather have that present.

Possibly. But I would argue that DRM would have become a non-issue, and died a death it richly deserved in the wake of the Sony root kit debacle, had not Microsoft and Apple rushed to embrace it under Vista and iTunes.

The only thing really keeping DRM alive is Apple and Microsoft's collusion with Hollywood and the record industry to support it at the kernal level. And I doubt they did so purely in the interests of protecting their customer's user experience.

Want to get rid of DRM? Convince Apple and Microsoft to stop going along with it. Without kernal level support DRM is (as you have noted) unworkable. And I doubt the media and entertainment industry can afford to abandon all the computer owners who are also their own paying customers just because they can no longer have OS DRM support. Those companies that still insist on DRM, and develop their own protection schemes, will be crowded out of the market by those producers that don't. The market itself will see to that.

Of course, once Apple and Microsoft stop playing the game, the media industry will probably try to get EU and US Federal legislation to require it. But that's a battle for another day. ;D

Quote
As for IE there was a recent article (sorry can't find it now) about the EU insisting that if MS won't remove IE from Windows they will be forced top inlcude the other major browsers on the desktop in the EU.

I'd call that a hollow victory at best, to say nothing of a transparent bid to "save a little face." It's almost like insisting that the girls be allowed to enter the boy's clubhouse; but not requiring that the boys stop being nasty, or hitting them when they do.

IE doesn't stop with it being a web browser. It also has low-level hooks into a number of key areas within the operating system and is so tightly interwoven that it is virtually  impossible to remove without taking some of the OS with it.

Microsoft has done this sort of thing for a long time. Remember when removing Outlook Express from your system also removed the TAPI API? (Wanna remove OE? Well then you can just forget about faxing anything either. >:() As long as Microsoft is allowed to avail itself of undocumented OS capabilities, and play spoilsport with it's APIs and services, it doesn't matter who else comes along for the ride.

IMHO: Europe is once again trying to accommodate a bully, while still maintaining some philosophical claim to having "stood up" to it. Which is extremely unfortunate.

Because if anybody has ever paid the price for doing that, it's the countries of Europe. :(

« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 01:13:17 PM by 40hz »

f0dder

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #189 on: February 03, 2009, 01:19:36 PM »
A couple of points: WMP != "The evil DRM". Sure, it has some DRM and imho all DRM is evil, but getting rid of WMP doesn't get rid of the Vista kernel DRM. I don't particularly like WMP itself, but I don't particularly dislike it either - I don't really care whether that component is included in the OS or not. I think Movie Maker is silly, though, and potentially hurts smaller companies.

It's impossible getting rid of IE from Windows, as it offers a lot of components that other people use. Getting rid of IE is about as ludicrous as telling a linux distro to get rid of libXML, libCurl, openSSL et cetera - just not doable. You can remove the "iexplore.exe" frontend and default browser integration, but you just can't remove IE. Besides, without a browser, how would you download an alternate browser, considering Windows doesn't have a linux-style repository and package management?
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Carol Haynes

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #190 on: February 03, 2009, 01:27:00 PM »
The trouble is that MS complied with a previous EU directive and produced editions of Windows XP (the N editions) that don't contain extra MS software (such as WMP) with the exception of IE. The net effect was that the 'N' versions were more expensive than the standard version. Who is going to pay more for a product that has fewer features?

The EU could argue that the 'N' versions should be cheaper but MS would argue that the cost of producing extra versions with low demand justifies a higher price.

What I don't really understand is why Apple doesn't come in for the same criticism with its inclusion of iPhoto and iTunes etc. I also don't really understand how Apple are allowed to restrict their product to their own hardware sales - they are after all selling operating systems separate to the hardware.

And what about Linux distros that are 'sold' bundled with Gigabytes of software. Surely they should play by the same rules and sell 'application free' products too. Free download distros could also be restricted to 'application free' ISOs so that users have to choose the applications they want.

People may not like the MS dominance (I don't particularly even though I use Windows, MS Office etc) but no one can really argue that MS is not in large part responsible for the spread of personal computing. I don't really understand the argument that market dominance gives MS an unfair advantage in the applications market when they are supplied free with the OS.

For example should an OS be able to write to DVD-R and DVD-RW these days without 3rd party software? If so then doesn't the market monoply argument rule because the OS is removing the need for 3rd party writer software and if not why should the OS be able to write to hard disc (after all NVIDIA supply drivers for their motherboards - perhaps all motherboards should provide their own IDE/SATA drivers - with all the issues that would cause) ???

Eóin

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #191 on: February 03, 2009, 01:39:29 PM »
And what about Linux distros that are 'sold' bundled with Gigabytes of software. Surely they should play by the same rules and sell 'application free' products too. Free download distros could also be restricted to 'application free' ISOs so that users have to choose the applications they want.

Yeah I never got that, expect that I suppose you really have to go after MS first. But if things are to be done fairly then the EU should have some equally serious issues to go after Apple with.

As for stuff being bundled free, well we all know every thing we're not charged for just has it's cost absorbed in the things we do pay for.

40hz

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #192 on: February 03, 2009, 01:52:26 PM »
What I don't really understand is why Apple doesn't come in for the same criticism with its inclusion of iPhoto and iTunes etc. I also don't really understand how Apple are allowed to restrict their product to their own hardware sales - they are after all selling operating systems separate to the hardware.

If you could explain the Incredible Apple Teflon Effect, you'd "grok in fullness" the fundamental nature of our Universe far better than Siddhartha and Einstein combined.

In the meantime, I'll continue to sit and wait for fuller understanding....

Shanti! 8)

---------------
Quote
People may not like the MS dominance (I don't particularly even though I use Windows, MS Office etc) but no one can really argue that MS is not in large part responsible for the spread of personal computing.

I'd actually take it further than that. I would argue Microsoft was the single largest factor in the initial spread of personal computing. Credit where credit is due. (eek! :tellme:)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 01:58:11 PM by 40hz »

Lashiec

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #193 on: February 03, 2009, 01:55:59 PM »
What I don't really understand is why Apple doesn't come in for the same criticism with its inclusion of iPhoto and iTunes etc. I also don't really understand how Apple are allowed to restrict their product to their own hardware sales - they are after all selling operating systems separate to the hardware.

And what about Linux distros that are 'sold' bundled with Gigabytes of software. Surely they should play by the same rules and sell 'application free' products too. Free download distros could also be restricted to 'application free' ISOs so that users have to choose the applications they want.

Not enough market share to push the computing world in one way or another due to the inclusion of that software. While in the case of WMP, one could argue that the general crappiness of the main competitors (QuickTime and, especially, Real, which, BTW, were the main complainers) pushed the media player world in the Microsoft direction (until the marriage of the iPod and the iTunes), in the case of IE the inclusion really meant the web should accomodate Microsoft desires instead of the other way around. Thankfully, this has been totally reversed, and in this regard, the EU ruling comes too late, as Opera Software complaint. And I'll stop here before we get into politics discussing if Neelie Kroes is an US-business hater, a hero for the free market, or whatever.

After this short break, let's put the thread on the right path (:P) with an "unexpected" announcement

So, Home Premium or Professional? (I wonder if the former will include RDC this time).
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 02:04:56 PM by Lashiec »

40hz

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #194 on: February 03, 2009, 02:11:25 PM »
After this short break, let's put the thread on the right path (:P) with an "unexpected" announcement

So, Home Premium or Professional? (I wonder if the former will include RDC this time)

Six editions?

<!sigh!>

Well...here we go again.

-----

BTW: Hey Lash! Whaddya mean by "on the right path"? You can't intelligently discuss Microsoft anything without also looking at the bigger picture. Windows 7 is not going to just be a software product - it's also going to be a factor for social and business changes.

It's really not so much what Win7 will be able to do, as it is where Microsoft plans on taking us.

Where do you want to go today? Oh, never mind. Why not just let Microsoft tell you. ;D

Lashiec

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #195 on: February 03, 2009, 02:23:53 PM »
The thing is that, with or without IE (blergh, I prefer the U2 version) into Windows, the browser is losing market share every month, and even if they greatly fixed their ways with versions 7 and 8, I seriously doubt they will regain a considerable number of users.

WMP is also no threat to anyone, with iTunes and Winamp right there, and tons of others jukeboxes and players available and some being used in considerable numbers.

And finally, Microsoft moved Windows Live Mail and Movie Maker outside the OS, so that leaves them with practically nothing else, apart from maybe Media Center. So, unless mouser plans to sue Microsoft for the Start Menu search functions and the Snipping Tool, there's no much else to complain. Or I'm missing some critical app. Or (I hope not) Microsoft deliberately left a Trojan horse in Windows 7 without anyone knowing.

I'm more worried about some of the other things they're doing, like pushing Games for Windows down the throat of PC gamers, which makes them jump through hoops and hoops of nonsense using software that barely works. No wonder PC gaming is "dying".
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 02:35:12 PM by Lashiec »

Edvard

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #196 on: February 04, 2009, 01:52:56 PM »
...
2- The Win7 ISO is 4.6 Gigabytes... 600 Megabytes too large for the USB media.
...
How? (see attachment in previous post)

Wha...?
:wallbash:
I could have sworn it was >4G...

(grumble... mumble... short-term memory... mumble)

nontroppo

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #197 on: February 04, 2009, 04:32:30 PM »
Quote
Perhaps the largest change, however, is Microsoft's recognition of the netbook market. Previously, Microsoft sold its Starter software only into emerging markets. Now, the company has positioned Starter as an ideal entry point for extending Windows 7 into netbooks. The catch? Like other Starter editions, that netbook will only run three applications at a time, an arbitrary limitation the software imposes.
{source}

WTF!!!?!?!?!!? Why oh why would any OS vendor limit their OS to running 3 apps at a time. It makes cutting out Aero as Vista did seem generous. So I'm researching a web article to mail to a friend, making notes in word as I go along. If my antivirus opens its UI, I have to close one of my others. What if heavens forbid, I want to listen to music while working!? Holy schnitzel...

FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]

Darwin

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #198 on: February 04, 2009, 05:48:16 PM »
As far as I can tell, the three app limit is Netbook only and I surmise it's to keep users from overloading the hardware - non?
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

zridling

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Re: WINDOWS 7 THREAD (ongoing)
« Reply #199 on: February 04, 2009, 06:00:23 PM »
Don't have the link, (chris pirillo?), but Microsoft announced that Win7 will be sold in five flavors compared to Vista's six. Still three to many to me. Offer both 32- and 64-bit versions on a dual layer disc and let the customer choose how much or little to install. Make it so that they can always go back and install more if needed.

EDIT: Here's the link. I don't count the Enterprise license for desktop use, of course.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=3456

  • Windows 7 Starter Edition (aimed at emerging markets and netbooks)
  • Windows 7 Home Basic (aimed at emerging markets)
  • Windows 7 Home Premium (primary home edition)
  • Windows 7 Professional (primary business edition)
  • Windows 7 Ultimate (for consumers who wants everything)
  • Windows 7 Enterprise (volume license only)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 08:34:43 PM by zridling »