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Last post Author Topic: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours  (Read 156150 times)

Ehtyar

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #125 on: September 03, 2008, 06:06:36 PM »
You're most welcome Darwin. Though I must say, I do love Firefox's update mechanism. Google just got theirs waaaaaay wrong.

Ehtyar.

Ehtyar

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #126 on: September 04, 2008, 07:32:02 PM »
I was tempted to start another topic for this, but I'll restrain myself; there are too many already. There are details of the carpet-bombing attack that affects Chrome here and here.

Ehtyar.

invenit

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2008, 11:04:24 PM »
Quote
It feels very fast indeed and once I had set ad-muncher to strip advertising from pages it feels no slower than Opera

Whoa! Thanks, Dirhael. I started evaluating Ad Muncher today and it is exactly what I need for Sleipnir (and, possibly Chrome (after Google addresses its shortcomings)). I still got a month to look it over but I may register sooner. Great thread.   ;D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 11:08:56 PM by invenit »

Edvard

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2008, 11:07:33 AM »
I was tempted to start another topic for this, but I'll restrain myself; there are too many already. There are details of the carpet-bombing attack that affects Chrome here and here.

Ehtyar.
Yeah, I thought it was weird that Chrome just went ahead and downloaded whatever you clicked on without so much as a "how ya doin'?".
NO browser does that, why does Chrome?


jgpaiva

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2008, 11:16:08 AM »
Not exactly, edvard.. I know Opera does that (the download starts just as you press the link, even before you've told it where to save/run), and i'm pretty sure there must be an addon for firefox to have it doing the same.

Edvard

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2008, 02:09:33 PM »
I stand corrected.
As far as Firefox, I don't think there is an extension to do it (I just checked...) but it may be configurable somewhere.

It still seems like undesirable behavior, no matter what you're browsing with.

fenixproductions

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #131 on: September 05, 2008, 02:31:20 PM »
Another scary thing (now to think about autocomplete option):
http://www.tgdaily.c...tent/view/39176/108/

RedPillow

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #132 on: September 05, 2008, 06:02:59 PM »
I tried that and it seems to be quite fast but like they say IT IS BETA
Im gonna wait for complete version and try that to  :Thmbsup:

Dirhael

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #133 on: September 05, 2008, 08:55:21 PM »
Not that I use this browser all that much, but I do like to keep up-to-date with how it develops, and Google are turning out "nightly builds" like crazy. The only bad thing about this is that these builds doesn't contain a built-in update check...and they [Google] are releasing up to 10+ versions a day. So, I made myself a litte autohotkey utility to make life easier :)

Chromium.gif
If you're interested, you can download it here (just download, extract and run)

See this post for the updated version
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 01:27:00 AM by Dirhael »

sri

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #134 on: September 05, 2008, 11:51:14 PM »
Dirhael: Blogged about your program here.
<a href="http://www.sridharkatakam.com">My blog</a>

Paul Keith

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2008, 02:15:12 AM »
Dirhael, I haven't tried the Nightly Builds. Any major changes?

Dirhael

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2008, 05:43:35 AM »
Dirhael: Blogged about your program here.

I didn't see that coming, thanks for the mention :D

Dirhael, I haven't tried the Nightly Builds. Any major changes?

Major? Well most of it isn't really visible changes, but there have been a lot of bugfixes (going by the, at times, somewhat sparse changelogs) which I'd consider important. It seems to be a lot more stable than the original release so far, though I suppose that could change depending on what build is being used.

EDIT:

After getting this requested at another forum I visit, here's an updated version that will show you if the latest build have passed all unit tests or not (to prevent wasting time downloading broken builds) :)

[Download version 1.1.1 here]

EDIT #2: Changed link to latest bugfix release.
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 01:28:33 AM by Dirhael »

Paul Keith

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2008, 10:26:11 AM »
Thanks. I submitted your entry to Mixx



mouser

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2008, 11:08:27 AM »
very cool dirhael, thanks for sharing  :up:

Deozaan

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #139 on: September 07, 2008, 01:08:07 AM »
I still don't get what's so cool about Chrome.


Ehtyar

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #140 on: September 07, 2008, 02:50:14 AM »

Grorgy

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #141 on: September 07, 2008, 03:02:36 AM »
Isn't this the purpose of beta releases, to test them in real world environments and fix errors?

They probably should not have released it with such enthusiasm as they did till the bugs had been squashed, but still, it is a beta version.

Ehtyar

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #142 on: September 07, 2008, 03:13:31 AM »
Isn't this the purpose of beta releases, to test them in real world environments and fix errors?

They probably should not have released it with such enthusiasm as they did till the bugs had been squashed, but still, it is a beta version.
I anticipated someone might mention this. It's all well and good to say any beta browser has these flaws, but can anyone give me a good reason as to why Google kept the browser closed source until its initial beta release, other than creating media hysteria, which isn't a good reason to begin with? This is not to mention Google's misuse/abuse of the 'BETA' moniker since the GMail fiasco...

Ehtyar.

Paul Keith

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2008, 08:04:58 AM »
Portable edition now available

Quote
It's all well and good to say any beta browser has these flaws, but can anyone give me a good reason as to why Google kept the browser closed source until its initial beta release, other than creating media hysteria, which isn't a good reason to begin with? This is not to mention Google's misuse/abuse of the 'BETA' moniker since the GMail fiasco...

Insurance against the web and rival competitors although marketing is already a big enough reason to do this. See any browser besides Firefox who have small market share despite possibly appealing to certain users.

Think back on how Opera has one of the most stable betas in the past and it never get them much marketshare despite getting coverage everytime they release a "new" feature. Why? Because if it's not something an extension maker would copy to Firefox shortly thus killing the appeal, it's their poor marketing efforts in the first place.

Again, think back on how "well received" Safari was for Windows that mar it to this day even with updates.

I think the better question is, can anyone give you a definite bad reason for Google's decision to keep the browser under wraps.

I agree with your assessment on Gmail though. That's why I don't mind this one. This is probably the best beta entry Google has ever had and it's also one of the best entry for a browser that I've seen for quite some time.

Firefox already killed IE through extensions.
Maxthon and Opera already killed IE through security, out of the box features and customization.
Now the only thing left is to kill the beast on marketing and user interface. After that, I think we'll finally get Browser Wars 2 and it should be one hell of a ride.


urlwolf

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2008, 11:09:07 AM »
Using Dirhael's nice updater, I downloaded the exe.
Clicked on it a few times, nothing happened (no install wizard came up). I looked in the process explorer and have a few instances for googleUpdater. Damn. What did I do wrong?

I'm worried the updater is not working.

Ehtyar

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2008, 03:53:19 PM »
Portable edition now available

Quote
It's all well and good to say any beta browser has these flaws, but can anyone give me a good reason as to why Google kept the browser closed source until its initial beta release, other than creating media hysteria, which isn't a good reason to begin with? This is not to mention Google's misuse/abuse of the 'BETA' moniker since the GMail fiasco...

Insurance against the web and rival competitors although marketing is already a big enough reason to do this. See any browser besides Firefox who have small market share despite possibly appealing to certain users.

Think back on how Opera has one of the most stable betas in the past and it never get them much marketshare despite getting coverage everytime they release a "new" feature. Why? Because if it's not something an extension maker would copy to Firefox shortly thus killing the appeal, it's their poor marketing efforts in the first place.

Again, think back on how "well received" Safari was for Windows that mar it to this day even with updates.

I think the better question is, can anyone give you a definite bad reason for Google's decision to keep the browser under wraps.

I agree with your assessment on Gmail though. That's why I don't mind this one. This is probably the best beta entry Google has ever had and it's also one of the best entry for a browser that I've seen for quite some time.

Firefox already killed IE through extensions.
Maxthon and Opera already killed IE through security, out of the box features and customization.
Now the only thing left is to kill the beast on marketing and user interface. After that, I think we'll finally get Browser Wars 2 and it should be one hell of a ride.
Thank you for the portable version, I might keep it handy if only for testing purposes (provided it doesn't come with Google Updater.
Firstly, I can't imagine what features of chrome would be worth copying at all...and had it been open source from the beginning, by now they'd have 500 times as many features.
Opera failed because it is closed source, and their parent company is nothing on Google as far as marketing goes. Safari failed because Apple are incompetent.
Had Chrome been open source and public knowledge from the beginning, users would be safer as there would have been fewer initial users (though this is more the users' fault than Google's, though they are to blame for the way they portrayed the browser as feature and security complete despite the 'beta' tag). Users of chrome are also staring down the barrel of a featureless, insecure and ill-rendering browser that will sooner infect them with malware than provide them with good user experience, why?, because Google can't help themselves.

Ehtyar.

lanux128

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2008, 08:01:31 PM »
After getting this requested at another forum I visit, here's an updated version that will show you if the latest build have passed all unit tests or not (to prevent wasting time downloading broken builds)

a good one! Dirhael. :Thmbsup: going to try it out.

Paul Keith

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2008, 09:24:29 PM »
Quote
Opera failed because it is closed source, and their parent company is nothing on Google as far as marketing goes. Safari failed because Apple are incompetent.
Had Chrome been open source and public knowledge from the beginning, users would be safer as there would have been fewer initial users (though this is more the users' fault than Google's, though they are to blame for the way they portrayed the browser as feature and security complete despite the 'beta' tag). Users of chrome are also staring down the barrel of a featureless, insecure and ill-rendering browser that will sooner infect them with malware than provide them with good user experience, why?, because Google can't help themselves.

Actually that depends on your definition of failure. I honestly can't say a company that retains it's loyal fanbase and is still in business, a failure but at the same time, I get your point.

That doesn't mean I agree with your points though. Marketing wasn't the least of problems Opera had on the desktop. Try Firefox redefining the definition of "adware = spyware" and Opera's early default user interfaces and people's knowledge of browsers. You simply could not convince many users if they don't know what else to look for in a browser.

That's why Firefox got such a high marketshare fast but also couldn't penetrate IE in my opinion. Users who couldn't know better got their taste of advanced options mainly through extension makers copying most of Opera's features and users got a taste of these features one by one with only a select few extensions only unique to Firefox early on, but it also made people realize how slow Firefox can be and how un-IE like tabs were.

That's why people still in the end settled back to IE. Most of them didn't know better but for some of them, it was just because Firefox wasn't so much better, it was just different especially out of the box but it did start IE's bare bones feature's death through Firefox copying Opera and eventually just gaining momentum with more and more extensions from there. This signals the first attack on IE which led IE to upgrade it's browser which after further complaints eventually introduced people to tabs but then it became a case of IE being good enough and secure enough to use and even much more convenient than Firefox out of the box and if the features weren't enough, the fact that IE needed only one extension in IE pro was still a convenience Firefox didn't have but still the marketing factor was missing something to attract casual users.

This isn't a perfect analogy but I like to think it has some semblance of truth. To many average users, Opera was still just Linux to them, Firefox just sounds like Vista even with marketing and IE especially the classic ones were XP to them and they all have their purposes but as of pre-Chrome, they were still never going to surpass IE for quite some time but both had steady growth and educated users to new browsers but they in my opinion didn't invigorate enough casual users to switch. It just wasn't something you could install on a person who didn't care about browsers and sell it to them unless you're that good of a salesman or they were already on the fence with switching.

This is why Google Chrome is special. It took what Apple should have brought to Windows which is marketing and hype. (Yes, they are incompetent but not with regards to marketing) and paired it with a solid enough application from the start (again, Apple's forte) that I definitely think it would attract the casual users away from IE in such a way faster than FF can because it doesn't have 500 features. It's being hyped by the web right now as fast and light (something that draws many people to IE6) and it comes at a time when casual users are already slightly indoctrinated to tabs because of IE7 but at the same time not indoctrinated to MDI and it presented that in ways even a newb can understand which only better it's marketing.

Yes it's yet to be seen how far Chrome can effectively keep this pace up but it's really the first browser that I felt I could share with someone who doesn't know about browsers except IE. The 500 features and security would only have killed it's hype and it's appeal to casual users because they've heard that from Firefox already and it just didn't appeal to them and the web wouldn't be kind enough to not mention those and focus on light and fast because of course we want features and we're used to having all these common extensions in Firefox and we would just criticize the app by saying "Firefox can do it too" which would be worse than "Firefox has more features" because many of the last remaining non-FF users don't want these features bundled with their fast and light browser.

Of course, I'm not anti-Chrome getting features because it will eventually have them and that's a good thing but it's also not a definite bad thing that Chrome was kept under wraps for a while which led it to not being as secure or as featuritis as Firefox because for most of those users who want that, they already have Firefox for it. For most of those users who want light, fast and more features and security, they already have Opera for it. Chrome is filling a different niche in the attempt to either kill off IE for good or force Microsoft to compete.

sri

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #148 on: September 07, 2008, 09:52:50 PM »
Dirhael's program mentioned at http://www.readwrite...s_nightly_builds.php.
<a href="http://www.sridharkatakam.com">My blog</a>

Ehtyar

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Re: Google Chrome -- a new browser coming (in beta) in a few hours
« Reply #149 on: September 08, 2008, 01:06:50 AM »
Paul Keith, you make some good points. I can see why to some users less features is more enticing, and why Chrome is perhaps better off without them from the start. however I stand by my comments that users would be safer and less aggravated by the browser if it had a better rendering engine and was more secure, which would have been accomplished if Google had made the source available prior to the "launch". You can't tell me that Google will go to the same effort for the final (if indeed there ever is one).

Ehtyar.