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Author Topic: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever  (Read 4844 times)

urlwolf

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Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« on: August 04, 2008, 02:19:18 AM »
I use IMAP gmail from opera M2.
Right now, I cannot access my mail, it says 'Invalid credentials'.

So I try to go to the actual page. It opens just fine with the same username and password. But then, any action like going back to inbox gets an 'still working' message for ... minutes.

First, I need to point out Opera's general bugginess when working with anything google makes. Or more so, with anything that has javascript on it. This is getting to the point that one never knows if what you see is the default behavior or some weird interaction. Result: I trust Opera less and less, to the point that I'm thinking about abandoning it (being an user since v. 5).

Second, using free software (gmail, Opera) has one big downside: where do you go for support? You can of course post in forums, but if your issue is unresolved (nobody knows the solution) you are on your own.

Back in the day, I paid for opera and got support by mail. Nowadays the situation is a lot worse. It's forums post, and pray.

Same for gmail: where do I go for support? They just redirect you to their help files.

My browser and mail are critical for me. I cannot afford to be without good support. And I'm not even a business: I can imagine how stressing it can be for corporations.

Although, now that I think of it I have 1st hand experience with two large universities in the UK with mail down for weeks (Warwick and Surrey, if you must know). That is totally unthinkable. This is what made me move to gmail even though I always have an alternative provider (employer).

All in all, this is a sorry state. Suggestions?


4wd

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 02:41:35 AM »
I use Thunderbird for my emails, using both POP3 and IMAP gmail accounts, (I have 5 or so).

Haven't had a problem and Thunderbird uses plain text mbox format for its databases so if you have to, you can always read them in a text editor.

Actually, more precisely, I use Portable Thunderbird - so I can just copy the whole directory onto another device, (flash, HD, PC), to use it.

For browsing, Portable Firefox does all I need - IE is not even installed, (courtesy of nlite).

There's also SeaMonkey, (if you need your browser and email as one app), and its portable version.

There's also the Pocket K-Meleon browser.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 02:49:33 AM by 4wd »

urlwolf

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 03:26:24 AM »
Is thunderbird indexed? (i.e. searching full text is immediate, no matter how large your inbox is). Can you press a shortcut and get an 'send email' window in thunderbird even if you are in FF?


wreckedcarzz

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 06:42:01 PM »
Not sure on the indexing, I don't think I've ever seen an "indexed" email program (I don't use anything past FF's "I'm Feeling Lucky" search integration and the Vista "Start Search".

But Firefox and Thunderbird are separate - there are no options within Firefox to launch/control Thunderbird (and vice versa). Plugins might be available, but you never know with those...

4wd

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 10:35:04 PM »
Is thunderbird indexed? (i.e. searching full text is immediate, no matter how large your inbox is).

No indexing is done - just use the search field.  Or use some Desktop Search program that supports Thunderbird.

Actually, slightly wrong, Thunderbird does 'find as you type' - select an inbox and then start typing in the search field, results will start being filtered after about a second.

I know where I put things or where I can find what I'm looking for so I rarely have to resort to a search of any kind, (regarding local environment and PC anyway) - once every couple of weeks if I'm unlucky.

Quote
Can you press a shortcut and get an 'send email' window in thunderbird even if you are in FF?

It sounds more like you want an integrated solution, (ala Opera), therefore give SeaMonkey a go.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 10:38:55 PM by 4wd »

nontroppo

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 04:51:28 AM »
Here are some links worth reading about GMails terrible IMAP implementation:

http://www.wired.com...es/news/2007/10/imap
http://weblog.timalt...-imap-implementation

and some info from google on their IMAP differences:

http://mail.google.c...swer.py?answer=77657

Not sure how much they've managed to fix since that critical Wired article from IMAPs inventor came out...

Are you using 9.5x? I have no problems logging in to and using GMail, but I force it to use the new interface:

http://mail.google.c...1&nocheckbrowser

See if that works better than the original ui=1
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[url=http://opera.com/]

Dirhael

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2008, 07:03:43 AM »
Here are some links worth reading about GMails terrible IMAP implementation:

http://www.wired.com...es/news/2007/10/imap
http://weblog.timalt...-imap-implementation

and some info from google on their IMAP differences:

http://mail.google.c...swer.py?answer=77657

Not sure how much they've managed to fix since that critical Wired article from IMAPs inventor came out...

Are you using 9.5x? I have no problems logging in to and using GMail, but I force it to use the new interface:

http://mail.google.c...1&nocheckbrowser

See if that works better than the original ui=1

You don't need to change the url anymore if you're using Opera 9.5+ because Google is no longer blocking you out of the new interface if you are, as you can see from the relevant source:

Code: Javascript [Select]
  1. if(window!=top){top.location=location.href}(function(){if(location.href.indexOf("nocheckbrowser")!=-1){return}if(!is_browser_supported){location="?ui=html&zy=b"}var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var wk=/webkit\/([^ ]+)/.exec(agt);var g=/rv:([^;)]+)/.exec(agt);var ie=/msie (\d+)/.exec(agt);var opr=window.opera&&parseFloat(window.opera.version());var sup=ie&&ie[1]>=7&&!opr||navigator.product==
  2. "Gecko"&&g&&g[1]>"1.8"||wk&&wk[1].split(".")[0]>"522"||opr&&opr>=9.5;if(!sup){location="?shva=1&ui=1"}var c="jscookietest=valid";document.cookie=c;if(document.cookie.indexOf(c)==-1){location="html/nocookies.html"}document.cookie=c+";expires=Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 GMT";if(agt.indexOf("msie")!=-1&&document.all&&agt.indexOf("opera")==-1&&agt.indexOf("mac")==-1){eval('try{new ActiveXObject(agt.indexOf("msie 5")!=-1?"Microsoft.XMLHTTP":"Msxml2.XMLHTTP")}catch(e){location="html/noactivex.html"}')}})()
They're still sniffing user agents like crazy, but at least it works now. Their IMAP implementation unfortunately still sucks though. I've had the same problem as mentioned in the original post, but not just with Opera. The main difference I've experienced with Opera M2 and other clients like Outlook & Becky! is that they [the other agents] don't (usually) give you a proper error message, they just stop recieving emails until you restart the clients. Other than that, they all [usually] eventually break (if you let them run for a while)...you just don't know that it has happened. For this reason I've decided to go back to POP3. At least it works, despite all the other drawbacks.
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.

nontroppo

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2008, 07:30:31 AM »
Ah, thanks for the update - my GMail Speeddial entry hasn't been updated in a while and I never checked if they had stopped blocking, glad to see they have. I still wish Google engineers could write better standards-compliant code...  :'(
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Dirhael

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2008, 07:49:31 AM »
Ah, thanks for the update - my GMail Speeddial entry hasn't been updated in a while and I never checked if they had stopped blocking, glad to see they have. I still wish Google engineers could write better standards-compliant code...  :'(

Indeed, it would have been great if they did. It's strange though that for a company with so many great projects running that they simply do not care to have something even resembling clean & valid code. Just the simple fact that they don't even bother to specify a doctype makes me cringe http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/732/arghtp9.gif
Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
Well, not that there even is a doctype for the mess they're writing at times (well most of the time actually)...
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.

zridling

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Re: Opera and google. Incompatible as ever
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2008, 06:26:46 AM »
I fully support open source software, but Google goes overboard in their effort to get everyone to use Firefox. I like Firefox, but I don't love it. I love Opera! The only problems I have is with display to an extent. Fonts are fine in every website I visit. I got to Gmail and suddenly it looks like everything is fat and skewed despite having my own CSS font page.