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Last post Author Topic: Cuil search engine  (Read 8862 times)

PhilB66

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Cuil search engine
« on: July 28, 2008, 10:47:47 AM »
Cuil was launched today.

2008-07-28_2343.jpg

Info @ www.cuil.com/info/

2008-07-28_2346.jpg

(Source)

f0dder

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2008, 11:02:36 AM »
But it's not google, so who cares? :)
- carpe noctem

Darwin

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 11:06:45 AM »
Heh, heh I just tried it and it keeps timing out while trying the search. I expect they're a bit overloaded at the moment!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

CWuestefeld

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 01:49:11 PM »
Not impressed.

I ran some searches to see how my site would fare in the relevance. In Google, a search for "hancock gas lease" brings up my site first out of 68,900 hits. In cuil, that search yielded no results.

I then searched for "gas lease hancock" and got 434 results, and my site doesn't appear in the first page (again, Google lists it first).

No results vs. 434, for the same set of words, just reordered? Huh?

So I went back and re-ran the first query, and got the same 434 results as the second. Why didn't the first return any results (not an error, mind you, but "0 results").

My site is very targeted and topical, so there's a good reason that Google puts it at the top for this query. I can't see why it shouldn't show up on the first page of Cuil.

But more important is the inconsistent results...

Edit: change "can" to what I really meant: "can't"
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 02:12:30 PM by CWuestefeld »

mediaguycouk

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 02:07:28 PM »
I did a search for myself and found the wrong pictures on the wrong articles.

And that took a 3 minutes wait per page
Learning C# - Graham Robinson

Veign

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 02:57:05 PM »
The results are hard to read in the display they give and the content of the results are junk.  The few search I did provide extremely poor results on page 1.

Google has nothing to fear.

Lashiec

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 04:44:32 PM »
But it's not google, so who cares? :)

And this is exactly why Microsoft (or any other aspiring search engine) is in trouble ;D

Dormouse

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 05:05:07 PM »
Agree with all.

Very slow,
Too few results on each page,
Doesn't get the main sites relating to the search (I checked with a term where I have the main websites).

I remember trying Google when it was first launched and virtually unknown. It was much faster and produced better results than the other engines I was using at the time. And the plain pages made it much easier to scan. I immediately switched to Google as my first choice searcher. If someone does it better, I think the market would be there for them - but there's no prize for being nearly as good. And Cuil isn't anywhere near as good. ATM at least.

allen

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 09:03:00 PM »
As near as I can tell... they've (allegedly) trippled google's web page index (Right, sure...) and have reverted back to the search technology of the 80's, using meta tags?, to search through it.  My suspicion when I read the about page was that it would return a convoluted mess of useless results.  My initial tests seem to confirm that.

I don't know that "the perfect" search engine could unseat google's multi-faceted momentum.  And this thing is not, by any means, the perfect search. I'm not even convinced it's a valid search.

When I can't find something on google, I go to clusty for a second opinion.  Unless Cuil is really awesome, and they just forgot to turn on their super-ness for launch, I can't imagine there's any place for them on the Internet. I mean, really--who would use them?

kartal

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 10:49:26 PM »
Guys take it easy. This thing has just came out and Google has been around for a while. My results were not perfect but they were not bad either. Also Its privacy policy is way better than google. So yes I will use Cuil.

Also comparing search results to google is not very scientific either. Google search results are irrelevant anyways. There is no "industry standard" results database.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 10:56:11 PM by kartal »

Dormouse

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 03:01:43 AM »
Also comparing search results to google is not very scientific either. Google search results are irrelevant anyways. There is no "industry standard" results database.

That's the reason for using a term, where I know BOTH what the results should be AND can check it against Google.

CWuestefeld

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 05:11:32 AM »
So yes I will use Cuil.
So just like that, somebody offers a product and you jump right on board? I've got a bridge you might be interested in, too.

Frankly, I disbelieve you. I'll bet you an image of a $20 bill that if asked a week from now, you will not be using cuil.

nosh

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2008, 08:21:37 AM »
Tried it yesterday. Liked the speed (the Digg effect hadn't kicked in yet and their servers were faring fine), didn't much care for the column layout but did like the fact that they had thumbnails within hits. Got decent hits for the first few searches and then "0 hits" for something that did get hits on Google. *relief* Ctrl+W

kartal

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2008, 11:40:53 AM »
First, as long as its results are better than altavista I will be using it for long time.

Second, I am not jumping on every product on the market. But the level of negativity and pro google comments sounded little childish to me :) First of all the engine has just launched other day. I would ask you to refresh your memory about when google came out. Probably Cuil`s results are better than Google`s first day results. It takes time to create sensible results.

I am very happy with Cuil`s privacy policy, at least right now. To be honest I am sick of google adsense and its results that keep poppingup in whichever site I visit.  Privacy policy and user tracking is very overlooked matters when it comes to "Google" that is why I have no problem supporting other engines. Many people think that Google`s tracking is innocent and harmless and somehow Google managed to create an angel like look succesfully . So far none of the  Google products or affiliated company products that were offered to me through  adsense or other means has worked for me. I do not remember clicking a banner or any adv. in last 10 years. So why should I care or support Google`s tracking and products? Plus this level of "unregulated"  sophisticated tracking (email, search, maps, calenders, sheets, rss reader etc) is a form of invasion of pricacy. Not that I have anything to hide but just that someone or some company can have such unregulated power will decapitate
real market competition and real innovation . And  that is why I prefer not to use any of the Google` products except its search engine which is their superior skill. Consumer habits also creates innovation by forcing companies to change their market game.





So yes I will use Cuil.
So just like that, somebody offers a product and you jump right on board? I've got a bridge you might be interested in, too.

Frankly, I disbelieve you. I'll bet you an image of a $20 bill that if asked a week from now, you will not be using cuil.

nosh

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2008, 12:45:18 PM »
The following code pasted to your hosts file should stop Adsense. The Customize Google extension claims to remove both Adsense and Click Tracking. I use both (so wouldn't know if one isn't really working) and haven't seen any Adsense for months.


Spoiler
# Removes Adsense & Analytics tracking
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# [Google Inc]
127.0.0.1 pagead.googlesyndication.com
127.0.0.1 pagead2.googlesyndication.com #[Google AdWords]
127.0.0.1 adservices.google.com
127.0.0.1 ssl.google-analytics.com #[urchinTracker]
127.0.0.1 www.google-analytics.com #[Google Analytics]
127.0.0.1 imageads.googleadservices.com #[Ewido.TrackingCookie.Googleadservices]
127.0.0.1 imageads1.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads2.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads3.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads4.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads5.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads6.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads7.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads8.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 imageads9.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 partner.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 www.googleadservices.com
127.0.0.1 apps5.oingo.com #[Microsoft.Typo-Patrol]
127.0.0.1 www.appliedsemantics.com
127.0.0.1 service.urchin.com #[Urchin Tracking Module]
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



CWuestefeld

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 01:03:20 PM »
Plus this level of "unregulated"  sophisticated tracking (email, search, maps, calenders, sheets, rss reader etc) is a form of invasion of pricacy.
That's quite a stretch. How can you use the term "invasion"? They're not coming and taking any of your information, secret or otherwise. You are going to their site and offering it to them.

If I remember this conversation we're having, and in the future use it to influence the way I interact with you, am I violating your privacy? That's all Google is doing.

In the worst case, if I tell someone else about our conversation, would that be a violation of your privacy?

In each of the hypotheticals, the behavior is normal; no one would consider it abusive or even rude to ask you at a later date "have you changed your mind about search engines?". It would even be quite normal to comment to someone else that someone named "kartal" dislikes Google.

Assuming that you agree that those actions, as performed by me, would not be invasion -- or any violation -- of privacy, how is it that Google can be indicted for the same behavior, particularly when they're actually giving you a valuable service in return?

Consumer habits also creates innovation by forcing companies to change their market game.
This is quite true. And while I disagree with you, I applaud whole-heartedly your conviction if you actually put your behavior where your mouth is.

kartal

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 02:06:32 PM »
I said that "unregulated sophisticated tracking is a form of invasion of privacy". This basically means that they can create a massive database through their products usage(email, maps etc)+search services and sell it, give it or  do whatever the heck they want with that information. I would remind you google`s compliance with Chinese goverment. Do not get me wrong I am not singling out Google only here. I think that all of the internet should be regulated little bit more when it comes to tracking and keeping records without sacrifing companies profits and netizens rights.

There is no difference between living under a despotic regime that tracks you daily and tracking done by google, yahoo or microsoft. They all are interested in same thing which is manipulating you (via the information they keep about you) further to advance their agendas. This may sound quite strecth but unregulated power is form of despotism to me, virtual or non virtual. You cannot deny the fact that Google adsense could manipulate people`s consuming habits if  people are less educated about these matters. If manipulation was not working Google would have not made any money and demolished adsense business long time ago. 

The problem with Google is that the formation of octopus powers and skills. They can reach to any place in virtual world through, maps, adsense, emails etc. For example when I go to Amazon and search for an item, Amazon would give me additional choices. Amazon is trying to manipulate me but I am willingly searching for a product and trying to buy a product. In that case Amazon has a clear purpose which is trying to sell a product which I am aware of. With Google this is not so clear, they offer you services but they do not tell you what is happening in the background. What is happening is that you think that you are getting a free service but in reality they want to track your habits, create a profile about you and sell products through this secret mission. I find this annoying and deceptive.


Regarding mentioning conversations between people, I sure would not think that that is invasion of privacy. But if you mention our conversation to someone else by purpose of financial scheme or advancing your financial interests by disregarding my righst that would be a clear invasion of privacy to me. Especially if you mention our conversation to someone I hate knowingly, that might create a privacy problem as well. In that case you would clearly demonstrate that you either lack simple social qualities or have a different purpose.

I follow my mouth or my mouth follows my hearth and mind, no problem there. I do not use Google products and trying to avoid google search as much as possible. Once I have a better choice I would ditch Google with my whole heart, just because of their shady privacy practices. I am not only talking about myself, anyone`s privacy and rights matter to me.

I am hoping that one day there would be true non commerical search engine model that its financials works based on community and donations like donation coder concept.


This is quite true. And while I disagree with you, I applaud whole-heartedly your conviction if you actually put your behavior where your mouth is.
[/quote]

jgpaiva

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 04:02:43 PM »
Hmm... A search for gridmove got a few results from software listing sites and gridmove's page isn't listed in the first 10 results even though all of the pages on the first 10 link to it.
Searching for 'donation gridiron got a hit for DC's first page (with microsoft's image, don't know why) but no hits for the correct page again.
My conclusion is that right now, it's pretty much unless.

kartal

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2008, 04:10:13 PM »
There are also hijacked results. Sometimes first hits are linked to selling web site names.

Dormouse

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2008, 06:28:13 PM »
But the level of negativity and pro google comments sounded little childish to me :) First of all the engine has just launched other day. I would ask you to refresh your memory about when google came out. Probably Cuil`s results are better than Google`s first day results. It takes time to create sensible results.

As I said, I do remember when Google launched (with rather less publicity that Cuil have managed) and it was a better search engine from the beginning. That's why it was able to grow so quickly.

I don't think that my comments have been particularly pro Google. I do think it is the best search engine at the moment, but I'm not sure that the search results are as well selected as they were a few years ago. I also dislike the default 10 results on a page. I do like the various specialist search facilities and also think that they have been one of the most innovative big IT companies over the last few years, but I will be very quick to look at any alternative that looks as if it might be better.

kartal

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 06:58:10 PM »
I do not think that it was the greatest search engine from the beginning. But it was better than altavista that is for sure and probably that gave the 5 star impression.

We should make a list of good search engines. I have some compiled. I will start a topic now.



As I said, I do remember when Google launched (with rather less publicity that Cuil have managed) and it was a better search engine from the beginning. That's why it was able to grow so quickly.

allen

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 10:23:05 PM »
Second, I am not jumping on every product on the market. But the level of negativity and pro google comments sounded little childish to me

On the contrary, praising/standing by a proven product seems less childish to me than naysaying them to side with a new and unproved/untested product for the sake of bucking trends.  More to the point,    I don't believe it's fair to praise an admittedly stumbling new product, asking us to lower expectations because it's new, while dismissing those who praise a time tested product.  My initial impressions of cuil were that it was, in every way meaningful to me, inferior to the search engines (plural) I prefer.  If praising the search engine that has served me best for years is childish, then I may as well never praise another product that works for me again.  But what, pray tell, does that make going to the defense of a product you can't have run more than a handful of searches in?

That isn't to say I don't feel you should give Cuil a fair shake, after all competition in the market place is a necessary thing and I'd be glad to see a superior search technology rise up. But Cuil has not struck me as that technology in any way shape or form. Granted its privacy agreement rings a chord with some... for me it's not a selling point. I'm OK with trading my usage habits and interests for a service that does what works for me.

Yes, Cuil is new--but they didn't come out saying pardon us, we're new.  They're coming out with an aire of superiority, hyped as a google killer.  I judge them by what they claim to be, not by their age.  If they going to come forth with that degree of confidence, I expect to see that level of delivery.  Were their promises more modest, I'd be far less critical.  No way to curb potential fans faster than to immediately disappoint them and send them home disillusioned. I expected to be amazed by my initial queries with this "superior" search. I wasn't.  The bottom line is, if you can't play with the big leagues, don't outright challenge the holder of the pennant.  Work your way up through the leagues, building up your momentum and your fan base as you go.

kartal

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 11:46:50 PM »
I am not praising Cuil at all. As Allen stated it is inferior and some of its results are shamelessly hijacked. It looks like they have investment and marketing power. We can determine this by seeing amount of hype created around its name and superior skills. This kind of publicity  generally backfires because too much ambition creates too much expectation. That is why some people are querrying couple words and having dissappointment. Disappointment is fine. However some people are unknowingly google fanboys and their whole reasoning is based on google centric ideas. 

Google is Google because of innovation and challange they brought against names like Microsoft. But that does not mean that they will be the king of the world forever. That is  why innovation and positivist history view are here. As a result of new cycles in innovation, one day Google will be challenged and crippled severely.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 12:26:01 AM by kartal »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2008, 08:24:18 AM »
*Shrug* I did a search on myself using Cuil and it worked just fine. I'll play with this for a while before making any decisions.

Dormouse

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Re: Cuil search engine
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2008, 11:59:10 AM »
It looks like they have investment and marketing power. We can determine this by seeing amount of hype created around its name and superior skills.
True - but they'll need huge amounts of money and time now to overcome this sort of joke/opinion - http://www.theregist.../08/01/cuil_apology/