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Author Topic: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?  (Read 12993 times)

brotman

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What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« on: July 27, 2008, 09:36:21 PM »
Hey y'all,

My last experience with Miocrosquish (and Vista - which has since be "upgraded" back to XP on my PC) was bad. This  led me to the decision that my next "PC should be a Mac.  I'd like to do a little preperation for the change and get accustomed (as much as is possible) with OSX (if not that then at least the Linux underpinings for that system.  Does anyone know upon what Linux OSX was based???  Or which Linux is closest to Apples OS???? :tellme:

Thanks,

Chuck
Chuck Brotman

40hz

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 11:17:40 PM »
1. Macintosh OS X is Unix derivative OS based on the XNU hybrid microkernal.

The history and technical details would take a lot of space to recap so your best bet is to take a look at Wikipedia if you need specific information. Suggested links:

   OS X see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X

   MACH see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_kernel

   XNU see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU

2. Sorry to tell you, but what the Mac users say is true. If you want to experience the Mac you'll need to get one.

Apple's claim to fame lies in the proprietary Macintosh design and "user experience." It is unique. There is no equivalent product on the market.

If you want to try something to get your mind out of the Windows mindset try any of the "live" Linux distributions. Ubuntu is probably the easiest to start with. It uses the Gnome desktop so you shouldn't feel completely lost once you start it up. Other good first choices would be Mandriva or LinuxMint. A quick run over to Distrowatch (www.distrowatch.com) can point you to more choices.

Happy Mac-ing! :)


jormartr

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2008, 01:42:39 AM »
Regarding to the interface experience and integration, the most close to it is the new KDE 4.1 desktop enviorenment. That version is still under developement, but it should not take too much longer to get stable.

I am a linux user, I have used both Gnome and KDE. Both of them have good integration within their components. I feel KDE has more options and choices, more configurable. Gnome is really easy and one cannot get lost on it, but it leaves you with fewer options to adapt to yourself.

I am looking for KDE4.1 to get out (actually under Release Candidate). I have tried its beta versions, and the developer team is working towards a great libraries base for all the software, and integration between its components.

Just my opinion.

Edvard

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2008, 04:16:46 PM »
40Hz, you forgot the Darwin part.
Quote
Darwin is an open source UNIX computer operating system released by Apple Inc. in 2000. It is composed of code developed by Apple, code derived from NEXTSTEP, and code derived from FreeBSD and other free software projects.
Darwin forms the core set of components upon which Mac OS X and iPhone OS are based. It can also be run as a standalone operating system (although Apple no longer provides a distribution).
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 04:29:09 PM by Edvard »

40hz

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 05:58:04 PM »
40Hz, you forgot the Darwin part.
Quote
Darwin is an open source UNIX computer operating system released by Apple Inc. in 2000. It is composed of code developed by Apple, code derived from NEXTSTEP, and code derived from FreeBSD and other free software projects.
Darwin forms the core set of components upon which Mac OS X and iPhone OS are based. It can also be run as a standalone operating system (although Apple no longer provides a distribution).

Yep. I did. Please don't tell anybody!!!  ;)

BTW: Here's a pretty interesting video of Steve Jobs demoing (is that a word?) NextStep:

http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A

And a ca 1984 demo of the original Mac. I remember how it looked like something out of StarTrek compared to DOS on a VGA monitor. And in retrospect, what a little babe-magnet Steve was back in his "salad days.":

http://www.youtube.c...&feature=related

And here's an interesting old post (bordering on flame) about the relationship of the Mach kernel to BSD - with a swipe or two at the Linux crowd. Fun!:

http://www.sdbug.org...-January/002519.html


« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 06:29:06 PM by 40hz »

zridling

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 12:00:48 AM »
Chuck, you might consider the following links before dropping the cash on a mac machine:

Turn Your Ubuntu Hardy to Mac OSX Leopard
http://maketecheasie...-leopard/2008/07/23/

gOS Space
http://www.thinkgos.com/os-products
http://blogs.techrep...om/opensource/?p=237

40hz

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 05:43:48 PM »
Chuck, you might consider the following links before dropping the cash on a mac machine:

Turn Your Ubuntu Hardy to Mac OSX Leopard
http://maketecheasie...-leopard/2008/07/23/

[

Oooo zridling!
Good one!  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:
Close enough to give some idea of what it's like. I have got to give this one a try...

Chuck: You can do an "install" of Ubuntu using the Wubi option. That will let you use Ubuntu without needing to repartition or otherwise change your Windows environment. Wubi installs Ubuntu as an application rather than it's own thing. If you don't like it, you can remove it by using your Add/Remove Program control panel. Otherwise it works just like a real installation with a few minor exceptions.

After you've "wubbed" yourself, just follow the instructions in zridling's link and you should be ready to rock.

Wubi links:

Official Wubi site: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide

Much more user friendly walk through (Elmer Fudd sez:"Do dis so's you don't get wubbed da wong way!")  :)
http://seogadget.co....-installation-guide/

« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 12:36:47 PM by 40hz »

nontroppo

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2008, 07:12:42 AM »
Hm, that visual makeover for ubuntu is pretty slick. However note it is based on the default desktop, gnome, which is less Mac-like functionally than KDE. KDE has some of the wonderful functional intergration that makes OS X the best OS IMO, which gnome doesn't. That makeover changes the look of gnome, but the core features are still gnome.

As a long-time Windows user who has tried Linux repeatedly (and has recently been forcing himself to use Vista for a long test period and also Ubuntu's latest release), I can honestly recommend OS X and Mac hardware (not that *$£@ mighty mouse though ;-)). I never wanted to "switch", I was a guinea pig, but the experiment was an unqualified success. I will pay the premium in future because a cool evaluation made it clear that the platform was technically superior for our needs. Actually, I finally made a hackintosh (bought another leopard disk) out of my Vista/ubuntu test machine and will not look back...

Indeed if you want to try out OS X, then perhaps going the hackintosh route is the only "real" option. There is plenty of info available online. The experience is like installing linux 5 years ago, if your hardware is OK, installation is a breeze, but if not, then expect to fiddle with kernel extensions (though thankfully not the endless recompilation).
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40hz

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2008, 11:11:00 AM »
Indeed if you want to try out OS X, then perhaps going the hackintosh route is the only "real" option. There is plenty of info available online. The experience is like installing linux 5 years ago, if your hardware is OK, installation is a breeze, but if not, then expect to fiddle with kernel extensions (though thankfully not the endless recompilation).

Be forewarned: you can be opening yourself up to some very serious legal repercussions with this one. Especially if you go with a Kalyway Leopard 10.5.1 SSE2 SSE3 disk.

Also be careful where you get your downloads. The torrent sites that carry this sort of thing bring you into the realm of warez and all that goes with it. I'd strongly suggest running your downloads through an anonymous proxy. And be careful which websites you browse for information. Some info sites are legit. Many aren't. Be sure all your security apps are fully up to date and you've got your browser "dumbed down" before you even think about surfing around for any of this stuff.

Don't mean to come across like a Boy Scout, but IMHO: Hardly worth the risks. 8)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 11:35:51 AM by 40hz »

nontroppo

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 01:17:54 PM »
I bought an extra copy of Leopard not out of worrying about legal repurcussions (there are currently two mac clone makers, one of which (Psystar) are in court defending their right to do so, yet no hackintosh developer/user has ever been "prosecuted" AFAIK), but just because I think the value my Dellintosh 8) gives is well worth the price. If you use an original Leopard disk then you don't need to "worry" about dodgy downloads...

I've had no problems with any of the sites which cater to the hackintosh community personally (using Opera on OS X), nothing suspicious at all (neither netcraft, phishtank, or Haute has given a warning on any of the sites), nor heard of anything from several other friends who've done the same.

Apple has not really done anything to quell the hackintosh community, and it seems to be tolerated as it will never hit the mainstream (indeed, a large number of hackintosh developers/users end up switching to a "real" Mac so I think it is good marketing for Apple!). But I do reiterate along with 40hz the dubious legality (Psystar is betting they can prove otherwise) of installing Leopard on non-apple hardware. Current EFI emulation means that none of the OS itself needs to be touched, thus it doesn't violate Apple's End User License Agreement... The next version of OS X (Snow Leopard) has been found to work fine using EFI emulation on PC hardware.

Here is a starter article from Lifehacker: http://lifehacker.co...no-hacking-required/
Info on the EFI emulation that means nothing in OS X is "hacked": http://en.wikipedia..../OSx86#EFI_emulation
InsanelyMac forum: http://www.insanelymac.com/
OSx86 wiki: http://wiki.osx86pro.../index.php/Main_Page
An informative forum post at Anandtech: http://forums.anandt...62&enterthread=y
A USB EFI emulation dongle, allowing standard install from Leopard disk, not too much known about it but it seems to work: http://www.efi-x.com...php?language=english

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« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:22:11 PM by nontroppo »

40hz

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 02:22:25 PM »
The Psystar case should provide for some great courtroom melodrama. The best article I've seen on Apple's suit has been this one:

http://www.zdnetasia...4164,62040943,00.htm

What I found interesting was this line from Apple's EULA (emphasis mine):
 
Quote
"This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so."

Apple has made it abundantly clear that they do not want their OS running on anything other than their own hardware. When you load OS X, you have to agree to that term along with all the others in the EULA. Psystar would have to stand the entire software industry, and 90% of the legal precedents for software licensing, on it's ear to get around that. If the legal issues were as clear cut as Psystar would have us believe then half the PC industry would have marketed Mac-capable boxes years ago.

And while it is true that Apple has not (to date) gone after individuals, there is nothing preventing them from doing so using the same technology our highly respected and selfless music industry uses. ;)

Don't get me wrong. The whole concept of building a Hackintosh appeals to the old-school hacker in me. But I think its important to understand all the variables before you start getting into gray market tech. And also to realize that you're not legally in the clear just because you haven't been told not to do something.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:27:29 PM by 40hz »

nontroppo

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 03:39:09 PM »
So the question is, does sticking an Apple (sticky) label on some hardware thus bypass the restriction?  :P
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Lutz_

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Re: KDE 4.1 is out - What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2008, 08:08:04 PM »

Dirhael

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2008, 08:46:10 PM »
KDE 4.1 is out, AFAICT:
http://www.linux.com/feature/142661

...and it's quite good, even great in some areas, as long as you don't have a NVIDIA GeForce 8/9 card (NVIDIA have been writing some really <insert not-so-positive adjectives here> *nix drivers for these cards when it comes to 2D and it doesn't look like it's about to change anytime soon). They are especially broken in anything KDE4/QT4 :( Let's just say that I'm not purchasing a high-end NV card again (I grabbed a 8800 when they first were released based on NVIDIA's history of actually having good *nix support) when it's time for a upgrade because at this point I get the impression that they don't even care.
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.

zridling

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 12:04:39 AM »
What Dirhael said. KDE 4.0 made the walls sweat in my house with my Nvidia card. Will try 4.1 someday with a different card.

Armando

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2008, 01:21:11 AM »
as long as you don't have a NVIDIA GeForce 8/9 card (NVIDIA have been writing some really <insert not-so-positive adjectives here> *nix drivers for these cards when it comes to 2D and it doesn't look like it's about to change anytime soon).
;D not so long ago, ATI was the black sheep...

Dirhael

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 06:53:42 AM »
as long as you don't have a NVIDIA GeForce 8/9 card (NVIDIA have been writing some really <insert not-so-positive adjectives here> *nix drivers for these cards when it comes to 2D and it doesn't look like it's about to change anytime soon).
;D not so long ago, ATI was the black sheep...

Indeed, but then AMD bought out ATI and released open specifications for many of their cards in addition to also starting making better drivers themselves. NVIDIA on the other hand seems incompetent when it comes to dealing with their more recently released cards (anything GF8+), which is strange considering that the drivers for their older cards are for the most part very good.
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.

Armando

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2008, 11:37:38 AM »
Agreed!

nontroppo

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Re: What Linux is xclosest to whats used in apples OSX?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2008, 01:05:43 PM »
For any prospective Hackintoshers, OSx86 Tools is an amazingly useful utility; most impressively it will scan your hardware, download and install your HW kernel extensions automagically:

http://pcwizcomputer...;id=15&Itemid=34
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
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