Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 02, 2016, 01:59:16 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?  (Read 27180 times)

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2008, 11:40:09 AM »
tomos: it simply refuses to run without, even though you have plenty of RAM? Interesting... and what a silly limitation to impose :)
- carpe noctem

y0himba

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 435
  • Yar.
    • View Profile
    • y0himba.net
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 11:55:21 AM »
I have been without a page file for 24 hours now.  Specs:  Intel Q6600 Quad Core, 4GB DDR3 1033, Vista Business 32bit. Only difference I see is less drive chatter.  Other than that, nothing. 

No difference at all actually.
My Web Site:  http://www.y0himba.net

masu

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2008, 12:02:00 PM »
Quote
nly difference I see is less drive chatter.

which is a big plus  :Thmbsup:
Find+Run Robot 2.90.01
Windows 7

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,315
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2008, 02:43:07 PM »
tomos: it simply refuses to run without, even though you have plenty of RAM? Interesting... and what a silly limitation to impose :)

could it be to do with fact it was released in 1999 when they probably couldnt imagine people using it on computers with 2 gigabyites ... and if they could, they probably presumed I would have upgraded by now ... ;D

I dug this out
from the Photoshop 5.5 help:-
When your system does not have enough RAM to perform an operation, Adobe Photoshop uses a proprietary virtual memory technology, also called the scratch disks. Virtual memory is disk space used for storing data during a work session when the amount of RAM is insufficient. (This scratch disk space is not a Windows swap file or Mac OS virtual memory, but is used only when working in Photoshop.)
...
The amount of free space on the scratch disk must be greater than or equal to the amount of RAM you have allocated to Photoshop. To ensure good performance, Photoshop writes the entire RAM contents to the scratch disks during idle times. If the scratch disks run out of free space, Photoshop quits taking additional RAM—regardless of what you have allocated to the program. This means that if you’ve allocated 60 MB to Photoshop [1999 standards :) ] but you have only 10 MB of free space on your scratch disk, Photoshop will use only 10 MB of RAM.
Tom

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2008, 03:12:28 PM »
Heh, especially considering they have their own "proprietary virtual memory technology", it's even more silly it won't run without a windows pagefile :P
- carpe noctem

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,315
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2008, 03:28:15 PM »
Heh, especially considering they have their own "proprietary virtual memory technology", it's even more silly it won't run without a windows pagefile :P
absolutely  :tellme:
Tom

lanux128

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,258
    • View Profile
    • Coding Snacks by Lanux128
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2008, 08:52:34 PM »
a question for f0dder: now that i've disabled the swap file, can i safely delete the pagefile.sys file? i have enough hard disk space so i want to delete just to see if Windows creates the file again.

nudone

  • Cody's Creator
  • Columnist
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,117
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2008, 03:28:59 AM »
i've turned the swap file back on (system managed).

err, it appears that my operating system isn't actually any quicker when the page file is disabled so i was just kidding myself. i'm going to leave the page file on now and just forget about it.

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2008, 08:41:28 AM »
lanux128: yup, you can safely delete pagefile.sys without any problems, once you've turned it off.

nudone: it's pretty hard to benchmark the effects... especially if you have a lot of RAM and fast harddrives. I still feel better knowing that windows won't do any useless paging even if I can't feel much of a difference on my current machine... back when I only had 1 gig of RAM, more paging was done, and I had a slow(er) harddrive - I believe I could feel the difference there, under certain load scenarios. But I have no idea how you'd go about benchmarking a thing like this. (Sure, you can watch the pagefile usage statistics and draw graphs etc., but that doesn't tell you much about how much "perceived sluggishness" there is, unless the stats are really bad).
- carpe noctem

nudone

  • Cody's Creator
  • Columnist
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,117
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2008, 09:00:35 AM »
i would have left it turned off but i had a bluescreen and then when the machine came back on skype had forgotten all the settings - so, maybe skype is crap and likes the pagefile. just making wild assumtions.

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2008, 09:17:41 AM »
i would have left it turned off but i had a bluescreen and then when the machine came back on skype had forgotten all the settings - so, maybe skype is crap and likes the pagefile. just making wild assumtions.
Hmm, sounds weird - can't see how the two things should be related. The only thing a pagefile can help you with during a BSOD is getting a minidump, which you can use for diagnostics... does skype store config in the registry or ini/xml/whatever?
- carpe noctem

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,713
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2008, 02:18:25 PM »
So I disabled my Pagefile a few days ago when I found this thread, but when I bring up the Task Manager and look at the Performance tab, it shows that my pagefile is at about 50% used (999MB).

Is this because I haven't manually deleted Pagefile.sys?


f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2008, 04:20:58 PM »
So I disabled my Pagefile a few days ago when I found this thread, but when I bring up the Task Manager and look at the Performance tab, it shows that my pagefile is at about 50% used (999MB).

Is this because I haven't manually deleted Pagefile.sys?
No, it's because task manager uses imprecise wording :)

It should be named "Commit charge" (or just "Commit" as Process Explorer calls it short). The WP entry is also a bit imprecise since it assumes there will always be pagefiles, but hey ;)
- carpe noctem

kimmchii

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • **
  • Posts: 360
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2008, 11:22:44 PM »
The problem with pagefile on windows is that it tends to page out stuff even when it doesn't need to.

exactly, thats why i run without a pagefile for more than 2 years already.
If you find a good solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem.
~Robert Anthony

lanux128

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,258
    • View Profile
    • Coding Snacks by Lanux128
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2008, 07:51:24 PM »
i just noticed that prolonged usage with Microsoft Office throws up an "low memory error" but Windows doesn't actually crashes. maybe it has something with 'undo' buffer.

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2008, 07:56:50 PM »
i just noticed that prolonged usage with Microsoft Office throws up an "low memory error" but Windows doesn't actually crashes. maybe it has something with 'undo' buffer.
Interesting! Which version of Office, how much memory? Does your total available memory drop way low, what is Office's memory consumption like, etc.?
- carpe noctem

lanux128

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,258
    • View Profile
    • Coding Snacks by Lanux128
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2008, 08:02:24 PM »
i'm using Office 2007 with 2GB of RAM. i hadn't thought of firing up Process Explorer to monitor the mem usage but normally Office is quite light-footed on this dual-core 2GB system.

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,713
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2008, 11:54:19 AM »
When I disabled my pagefile from this thread, I didn't notice any speed difference with my computer. Which is a cool thing.

But shortly after I disabled it, I started getting out of memory errors in Internet Explorer on Google related pages (Google Reader, iGoogle, Gmail, etc.). I also installed a VM with Vista so I enabled the pagefile again to allow the VistaVM to run with more memory.

Since enabling my pagefile again, the out of memory issues for Google sites in IE still happen (which I think means they're unrelated), I've gotten one pagefile related BSOD and also my computer just seems slower because I really notice when it has to restore the paged memory from the hdd. :(


masu

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2008, 12:06:28 PM »
How much RAM do you have?
I wouldn't do this If I had less than 2 GB Ram
Find+Run Robot 2.90.01
Windows 7

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,713
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2008, 01:07:08 PM »
How much RAM do you have?
I wouldn't do this If I had less than 2 GB Ram

2GB in XP Pro SP3


f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2008, 01:52:29 PM »
Deozaan: weird, I ran 32bit XPSP2 with 2 gigs and no pagefile for years without problems - except for one or two games where I had to temporarily re-enable the pagefile.

As for system running slower after re-enabling pagefile, grab sysinternals' "contig" tool as see if the file is fragmented or not.
- carpe noctem

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,713
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2008, 03:27:50 PM »
Deozaan: weird, I ran 32bit XPSP2 with 2 gigs and no pagefile for years without problems - except for one or two games where I had to temporarily re-enable the pagefile.

As for system running slower after re-enabling pagefile, grab sysinternals' "contig" tool as see if the file is fragmented or not.

Well, like I said, I'm still getting the out of memory errors in IE for Google sites even with the pagefile enabled again, so I'm not sure if that's related.

As for contig, it just tells me "The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process."

And by the way. Don't try to use Unlocker on the pagefile or your computer will BSOD. :)


Shades

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,096
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2008, 04:32:22 PM »
Don't you have the option to defrag your swap file when you reboot your system? Because that is more or less the only time you are able to defrag it using Windows.

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,315
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2008, 04:40:20 PM »
Deozaan,
I have used the JKDefrag gui from:-
http://www.emro.nl/freeware/
which in turn uses PageDefrag from Sysinternals to defrag the file on reboot
Cant do any harm to defrag it anyways even if you cant check it

btw, when you re-enabled it was it in exactly the same way it was previously enabled?
Tom

y0himba

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 435
  • Yar.
    • View Profile
    • y0himba.net
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Does it make sense to disable the windows swap file?
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2008, 05:14:20 PM »
I have noticed one application that doesn't like a disabled swap file, "Twhirl".
My Web Site:  http://www.y0himba.net