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Author Topic: Opera 9.5  (Read 17779 times)
allen
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« on: June 12, 2008, 08:19:35 AM »

Opera has released version 9.5 of their web browser for windows, linux and mac in 29 languages. Lots of great changes, including the fastest browser getting even faster, tighter security, a web developer tool suite "DragonFly", improved address bar, improved tab handling, and a slew of other features, tweaks and fixes.

. . . of course, since most of the Opera users here have been using the betas for some time the download won't change much!
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Josh
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 08:20:26 AM »

Dont confuse security with lack of use. Sorry, still no roboform, no opera for me.
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jmj
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 11:24:13 AM »

Dont confuse security with lack of use. Sorry, still no roboform, no opera for me.

You mean password management? Opera has had wand for years which IMHO works much better than Firefox's password management.
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Josh
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2008, 11:37:47 AM »

I didnt mention firefox. The wand pales in comparison to roboform. Several users here can atest to that fact.
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jmj
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 11:51:28 AM »

I didnt mention firefox. The wand pales in comparison to roboform. Several users here can atest to that fact.

Blaah, I checked Roboform's feature list and there was nothing special to me and one crucial missing feature (Linux support). Well, it's personal preference. But I think that it's not Opera's fault that Roboform does not support it.
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Josh
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 01:32:53 PM »

Umm, opera provides NO WAY for roboform to support it. There is no way for Roboform to access page content as the browser reads it. It needs full access to opera DOM model which opera does not provide access to. This has been discussed ad nauseum on operas forums and roboforms support pages. Roboform has contacted opera several times to try and add support, just look at their browsers supported list and you will see they support just about every browser out there, but opera has refused to provide a mechanism for roboform to tie into it. Roboform doesnt work on linux, thats true, but I dont hold it against it because it was never designed with that purpose in mind.
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Lashiec
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 05:40:25 PM »

One could argue that Opera wasn't designed with the purpose of supporting Roboform in mind cheesy. But I think you plea could be fulfilled in a near future (Opera 10, perhaps?) if the extension capabilities hinted by Opera's CEO are big enough to let Roboform interact with Opera.

Heh, I couldn't believe when it appeared on my reader this afternoon, the RC was released yesterday! Bad timing though, I have a few tabs pending here, so I can't upgrade (read: clean install) for now. I also have to check UserJS compatibility with the new version, but the changelog is full of excellent news. And their servers clearly were getting hammered with people flooding to get the new version Grin

And in four days we're getting Firefox 3 smiley
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 05:42:19 PM by Lashiec » Logged
allen
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 10:41:14 PM »

Dont confuse security with lack of use.

Cheap jab. Don't confuse lack of hype with lack of substance.  In the future, if something isn't canidae or at least prone to humping canine, I'll remember to refrain from announcing it.
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nosh
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 11:35:35 PM »

[valueless rant]
Opera is a fantastic piece of s/w. Pound for pound it's superior (atleast to FF2), by _miles_! But one wonders how slow it'll have to get for it to give us the level of functionality that FF currently provides. Until it opens up its gates it'll just have to live with its current niche audience (~2% (?) market share). FF3 is definitely a step for the better but I don't see it living up to all the hype once all the extensions (read, "crazy code"  Grin) catches up. They're both staying on my system until one totally owns the other, which isn't happening anytime soon... mad not till I buy a quad-core monster anyway.  undecided
[/vr]


« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 11:37:32 PM by nosh » Logged
justice
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 02:04:41 AM »

It's the last browser of the top 3 that doesn't has extensions / addons, yes. But did you expect it for 9.5? It's still a great browser.
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Josh
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 02:51:48 AM »

Allen, please dont take my post as a jab at you. I am jabbing at opera because of their "Use what we give you or nothing at all" mentality. I apologize if it appeared that way
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nosh
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 02:54:16 AM »

Just to put things in perspective reg. current browser market shares:



It's hard to believe, but Opera is fourth at a grand 0.71%.

[Source: Cybernet]

I think the post title: Firefox, Safari, & Opera Hit Record-High Market Share is kind of ironic.  Wink
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PhilB66
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 03:08:24 AM »

Usage share of web browsers

Scroll down for different data sources.
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Josh
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 03:47:37 AM »

One could argue that Opera wasn't designed with the purpose of supporting Roboform in mind cheesy. But I think you plea could be fulfilled in a near future (Opera 10, perhaps?) if the extension capabilities hinted by Opera's CEO are big enough to let Roboform interact with Opera.

Heh, I couldn't believe when it appeared on my reader this afternoon, the RC was released yesterday! Bad timing though, I have a few tabs pending here, so I can't upgrade (read: clean install) for now. I also have to check UserJS compatibility with the new version, but the changelog is full of excellent news. And their servers clearly were getting hammered with people flooding to get the new version Grin

And in four days we're getting Firefox 3 smiley

Where was this hint made? I would be very interested to see what opera 10 has in store if there is any sort of extension capability being planned.

Dont get me wrong, I love opera, but I can only use it so long before the third party programs I have which provide me needed functionality begin to rear their heads. I mean, I can only go so far with the built in functionality before I need more. This is where firefox shines for me.
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icekin
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 04:32:37 AM »

I didnt mention firefox. The wand pales in comparison to roboform. Several users here can atest to that fact.

Hi, I've used Roboform a long time ago, I don't remember why I stopped using it. Anyway, I've been using Keepass, which has an auto-type feature (Alt+Ctrl+A by default) which can be set up to key in data into webpages. Have you ever tried using Keepass? I consider Keepass more secure because the password management is being done by a separate program.
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Josh
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2008, 04:57:19 AM »

What about keepass do you consider more secure? I am unsure what you mean when you say "Password management is being done by a separate program". Isnt roboform a separate program? I mean, both encrypt your data and are password protected.
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fenixproductions
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2008, 05:01:19 AM »

Opera has big potential but it will never beat that Firefox  is easier to learn for average user. I've started my "adventure" with it since 6.x version and the only thing which always come to my mind after finals is: they should kick out the person responsible for marketing.

Does anyone ever seen releasing final version just two days after RC? Being honest: in reality it is less than one day because the rumour about RC has to spread out.

Opera has a lot of features that nobody knows. They focus on adding features but rarely manage to finish them completely.

Example 1:
AFAIR Opera offered filtering addresses via urlfilter.ini file. Later it evolve to RMB option called "Block content" BUT usability of it is questionable. Only real geeks know that this one exist. Is it so hard to give visible toolbar button for it by default? This way users could learn about pretty quick.

Example 2:
Synchronisation tool could be killer feature but they managed to break this one too. There is no possibility to decide which way your bookmarks should go.


Quote from: Opera Dev Blog
For Opera to send your stuff to the server, it goes through all your bookmarks and speed dials, puts them in a custom XML format, and sends it through a secure (https) connection to the server. The server will then store the items in its database. When another Opera with your login name comes by, Opera does the same as before, but the server will also look through what it already has to see whether something is different between the database and the new data. If there is something on the server which was not in the data Opera sent, it will return these items to Opera. Opera will then merge this with its own bookmarks.

When you add, modify, or delete a bookmark, Opera will store this status. Every so often Opera will connect to the server and repeat the synchronization process, this time sending only the changes to the server. Again, if the server has something new for Opera, Opera will get this back.

There is no possibility to clear up server stored bookmarks. There is no way to decide that your desktop's order is more important.
I had took a look on this feature more than half year ago. Because of crashes I have downgraded Opera to stable version. Now there is 9.5 "final", so I've decided to try out sync once again BUT it sucks.
During the months of waiting for 9.5 I've managed to categorise all of my links, (make a groups, proper tags, shortcuts) and I've changed my Speed Dial couple times. Thanks to sync tool I can end up with total mess. My desktop PC is always gaining total mess from server and server retrieves additionally duplication of existing bookmarks (but with categories). My Speed Dial is always overwritten and there is no way to prevent that (except copy/paste backup). None of sync checkoxes works properly...

Unfortunately:
Safari doesn't have real extensibility.
Firefox is very slow on my machine after adding dozen of plugins (oops: extensions) to have similar set of features as Opera. Even "Paste and send" requires additional module!
IE - not even worth a comment.
The rest are front-ends for IE (Maxthon) or Gecko (KMeleon) and they inherit pros and cons of others.

Sadly: there is no browser for Windows OS which could satisfy all of my needs (lot of complete solutions and small requirements). I think anyone has not to decide "on what side I have to be" but rather "for whom should I complain" Wink
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 05:05:28 AM by fenixproductions » Logged

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Dormouse
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2008, 05:06:13 AM »

I love this quote from theregister's review - Opera has been racing to release the latest version of its desktop browser. No guesses why. For the first time since 2003, Mozilla's FireFox looks like a modern browser, and not a skinnable memory heap testing tool.
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dantheman
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2008, 07:08:48 AM »

I agree with felixproductions, sync tool needs some improvement.
It's been a few times now that i've re-installed Opera browser and every time i get a bunch of duplicates that should not be there as i had deleted them.

The notes sync seems to be holding good though.

9.5's new theme is too dark.
They should have left the default theme in, at least as an option.

The revamped panel has problems of its' own that are still yet to be resolved.
Two "x" to close it and only one works.
The panel icons are no longer in "justified" position so they look bulky and ackward (especially the new theme!).   ohmy
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Lashiec
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2008, 09:41:00 AM »

Where was this hint made? I would be very interested to see what opera 10 has in store if there is any sort of extension capability being planned.

In this interview:

Quote
6) Would you consider including a general extension interface? While it is possible to add custom JavaScript to Opera, many users would appreciate a more open interface.

It's something that we have evaluated many times. We'll probably do something in the future. Our focus has been more on widgets – making applications that run outside the browser and are able to build on web technology. On the extensions side, traditionally our focus has been 'let's try to build as much into the browser as possible so people have a choice'. So we do it in a way that's tightly integrated and works out of the box. We've done so much – you mention extensions through user JavaScript, we've done it through CSS and we continue to find new ways to do it. It's clear that Firefox has a more extensible way of doing that. It will not be soon but we may provide some easier ways in the future to add more functionality to Opera.

I love this quote from theregister's review - Opera has been racing to release the latest version of its desktop browser. No guesses why. For the first time since 2003, Mozilla's FireFox looks like a modern browser, and not a skinnable memory heap testing tool.

Hehehe, The Register is cheeky as always, but the review is well balanced and has some good points.

Well, I finally installed this morning, and although I'm still playing with it, the improvements shine through, from the bigger ones (the new address bar is fantastic), to the small changes here and there, including those ones that are not documented in the changelog. Sites that worked before, but in a clunky way, has improved, particularly Yahoo Mail!, which is much more compatible with before. Minor issues here and there in most pages have been corrected, and AJAX sites work significantly faster than with 9.2x. I found difficult to believe those speed reports, but wow, sometimes it feel like I upgraded my connection. I'm liking the new theme, which is more compact than the old one and stacks perfectly with the rest of the Windows interface, even playing with my visual style.

Not all is nice, though. With certain AJAX sites, like Yahoo Mail! or Google Notebook (which still is unusable, though I don't know who is the one to blame), the most advanced features like drag and drop, or certain buttons, do not work, or it does in a very clunky way. For example, I deleted a few mails by drag and dropping them to the recycle bin, and in the process, all the text sitting in the path was selected, and the mails were not deleted. No good, because things like that did not happen in Opera 9.27, and Yahoo! Mail works so nice right now, it would be a bit sad to check the mail in Firefox only because of this. Also, I tested the improved plugins performance, and while it's clearly felt, Secunia Software Inspector makes Opera crash hard (didn't happen before as well), with a Visual C++ runtime exception. Of course, we're talking about Java, so who knows... I'll have to try with Sun demos. QuickTime trailers in Apple pages, and music and videos in the Wikipedia (through VLC plugin) work nice, though.

I hope that the minor issues get resolved soon, and as for the bigger ones... well, either Opera needs more work, or certain people need to pay attention to the rest of the browsers.
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icekin
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2008, 11:11:49 AM »

What about keepass do you consider more secure? I am unsure what you mean when you say "Password management is being done by a separate program". Isnt roboform a separate program? I mean, both encrypt your data and are password protected.

Yes, Roboform is a separate program, but I belivee you need to install it as a plugin for Firefox or IE in order for it to work in conjunction with it. Keepass doesn't need to install any plugins to your browser. The Ctrl + Alt + A will work on any program that has a graphical interface with the same page title. Unfortunately, the Auto Entry feature through Ctrl + Alt + A does not always work perfectly unless you set it up by typing in the Window Name format in the Notes section :
[copy or print]
Auto-Type: {USERNAME}{TAB}{PASSWORD}{TAB}{SPACE}{TAB}{ENTER}
Auto-Type-Window: *
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Josh
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2008, 01:06:36 PM »

Roboform USED to require a plugin for firefox. However, upon installation now, it works by attaching to the browser. You will see an extension listed in the addons manager, but it is no longer required. IE has always worked without a plugin.
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dantheman
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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2008, 05:30:54 PM »

Lashiec is sheek!

Do you have a weblog with software reviews?
Opera sure is fast! In between Firefox3RC3 i'm having a tough time seeing which one is faster.
Is it possible to tweak a notebook hooked up to a network which has a determined speed?
Anyway, Opera feels like it has the edge with regards to speed on the web (for now).
The search capabilities in both browsers is just marvellous!
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Lashiec
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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2008, 05:54:16 PM »

Lashiec is sheek!

Do you have a weblog with software reviews?

Hehehe, thanks! Nope, I don't even have a weblog :), and I wouldn't consider that a review, just a test of what to expect of the new version, and if it was a good idea to wait for an update or not. I had more crashes in one day than in an entire year, but I think it's really worth it.

Quote
Opera sure is fast! In between Firefox3RC3 i'm having a tough time seeing which one is faster.
Is it possible to tweak a notebook hooked up to a network which has a determined speed?

I think it's possible, but frankly, it's difficult to measure a real difference between both, apart from looking at numbers obtained by running synthetic benchmarks, in real scenarios there are tons of variables at play. I think that Firefox might have an upper hand with heavy AJAX sites, though (mostly because not all of them are supported in Opera :P). We'll know in a few days.
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Dirhael
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2008, 06:33:39 PM »

Lashiec is sheek!

Do you have a weblog with software reviews?

Hehehe, thanks! Nope, I don't even have a weblog smiley, and I wouldn't consider that a review, just a test of what to expect of the new version, and if it was a good idea to wait for an update or not. I had more crashes in one day than in an entire year, but I think it's really worth it.

Quote
Opera sure is fast! In between Firefox3RC3 i'm having a tough time seeing which one is faster.
Is it possible to tweak a notebook hooked up to a network which has a determined speed?

I think it's possible, but frankly, it's difficult to measure a real difference between both, apart from looking at numbers obtained by running synthetic benchmarks, in real scenarios there are tons of variables at play. I think that Firefox might have an upper hand with heavy AJAX sites, though (mostly because not all of them are supported in Opera tongue). We'll know in a few days.

My personal experience with the two browsers (O9.5/FF3) have left me with the impression that Firefox is a bit faster with many "heavy" javascripts, but Opera is a lot faster at handling CSS & HTML.
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