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Author Topic: Microsoft Bid for Yahoo - Interesting Development...  (Read 6176 times)
Renegade
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« on: February 28, 2008, 06:12:32 PM »

Seven Shareholders Sue Yahoo for Flubbing Microsoft’s Bid

And here's the kicker...

Quote
Meanwhile, Microsoft may use its right as a Yahoo shareholder to overthrow its 10-member board (which includes CEO Jerry Yang) – and replace it with directors who would lend a more sympathetic ear to Microsoft.

Muahahaha!

Microsoft hungry! Microsoft eat Yahoo! Yumm! cheesy
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f0dder
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[Well, THAT escalated quickly!]

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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 06:44:40 PM »

But is this a good thing? For us end-users, that is... I think Microsoft are already big enough...
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- carpe noctem
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« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2008, 05:05:47 AM »

I always find it interesting how people worry about Microsoft but nobody seems to worry much about google controlling so much of what happens on the net - what people find, their email, their documents, what they look at, analytics on a huge number of sites, advertising, lots of content (maps, scanned books, collections), quite a lot of backbone operators etc. etc. etc.
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iphigenie
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« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2008, 05:06:37 AM »

Although I happen to like Yahoo and to think that they don't need to be gobbled up - they still have a lot to go for them and can easily start growing again...
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f0dder
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[Well, THAT escalated quickly!]

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« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2008, 06:51:00 AM »

Oh, I worry about google as well... but they do seem a slight bit less evil than Microsoft. Might just be because they don't have quite as bad a monopoly as Microsoft (yet).
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- carpe noctem
Renegade
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« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2008, 09:05:36 AM »

Oh, I worry about google as well... but they do seem a slight bit less evil than Microsoft. Might just be because they don't have quite as bad a monopoly as Microsoft (yet).

I don't think that I could disagree more.

Google IS the 800 lb gorilla, but few people see it or say it. They have a complete strangle hold on the ad market. We need competition there, and neither MS nor Yahoo are cutting it on their own. They really need to combine in this area to hope to provide some kind of competition for Google.

The insidiousness of Google's penetration into the ad market is beyond sinister. They provide the ad channel, and the "free" analytics. Add that up! It spells pure evil.

Essentially you buy ads through Google, then use their anyalytics to tell them just how profitable you are so that they can jack prices up on you. It's sinister on their part and idiotic on our part for cooperating with them there. Why not just <insert obscene violation of your body here>?



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f0dder
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[Well, THAT escalated quickly!]

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« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2008, 09:10:34 AM »

Sure, they might pretty much have a monopoly on the ad market, and there's a lot of money involved in that... and there might be some negative consequences for webmasters who want to make money off ads. But how does that hurt me as a regular end-user, compared to how Microsoft's OS monopoly (arguably) hurts us all?
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Renegade
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2008, 09:34:20 AM »

Sure, they might pretty much have a monopoly on the ad market, and there's a lot of money involved in that... and there might be some negative consequences for webmasters who want to make money off ads. But how does that hurt me as a regular end-user, compared to how Microsoft's OS monopoly (arguably) hurts us all?

Very simple. Google squeezes merchants. Merchants squeeze customers. Microsoft squeezes people too, but Google is now the defacto ad company in the world. They dwarf the top 10 ad agencies combined!

When Google drives prices up, who pays for that? We do as consumers. It's not direct as in the MS case. It's much more insidious...
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« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 09:51:00 AM »

I seriously doubt a combination of Microsoft and Yahoo! could challenge Google's domination in that area, at least in the short-term. If people were concerned about Google misbehaviour there, the solution is simple: move to other ad carrier, but everyone seems to be happy right now. Besides, joining two behemoths to battle another one in just one field doesn't solve the problem of the monopoly a combination of Microsoft + Yahoo! could create in a lot of areas (IM and mail, just to mention the two biggest ones).

What it troubles me is that, despite initial concerns, now most people are simply standing back, and ignoring the whole issue, because they already conceded that, one way or another, Microsoft will achieve what it wants, even if they resort themselves to dirty play. It's amazing the kind of loopholes the system has for corporations to achieve everything they want, just to please those faceless masses that are the shareholders (or so they claim). I wonder how they would be pleased when just a few companies dominate everything, something that seems to be accelerating as lately, market competition be damned, goodbye one of the principles of the capitalist system.

Oh well, at least we have the EU to stop their dreams Grin
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Renegade
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« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2008, 10:06:11 AM »

Oh well, at least we have the EU to stop their dreams Grin

Ok -- You've got some good points, but that there is just a very sick sick sick thing to say! cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2008, 02:11:27 PM »

Who would have guessed comparatively unobtrusive text adds that even sometimes seem remotely relevant would have won the competition against the flashing malware-ridden window-spawning sex adds that many other add companies fill your screen with mrgreen.
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« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2008, 02:30:13 PM »

Oh well, at least we have the EU to stop their dreams Grin

Ok -- You've got some good points, but that there is just a very sick sick sick thing to say! cheesy

EU = European Union, not END USER LICENCE AGREEMENT... or am I missing the point here (wouldn't be the first time and certainly not the last...  embarassed)?
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wraith808
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« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2008, 03:33:06 PM »

Yes... EU = European Union... why would you think EULA?  And the reason that creating a gorilla to fight a gorilla is a reasonable aim is because corporations are driven by money, and they won't switch without a compelling reason. 

And I would argue that MS doesn't have an OS monopoly... Linux, *nix, and OSX compete quite well.. they just have a large market share.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 03:35:02 PM by wraith808 » Logged

Carol Haynes
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« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2008, 03:45:03 PM »

And I would argue that MS doesn't have an OS monopoly... Linux, *nix, and OSX compete quite well.. they just have a large market share.

Something well over 90% in the US and even higher everywhere else - looks like a monopoly to me.

Anyone noticed how lots of US TV shows (24 is an obvious one) only use Macs - pure product placement. I refuse to believe that the Mac is the US government standard issue - especially in security circles  undecided
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« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2008, 04:03:50 PM »

Quote
Yes... EU = European Union... why would you think EULA?
Quote

I didn't... I was just wondering why Renegade feels that having the EU stop Microsoft's bid to compete with Google via purchasing Yahoo! is very sick! It occurred to me that he may have interpreted EU as M$' end user agreement or something...
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wraith808
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« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2008, 04:30:01 PM »

Something well over 90% in the US and even higher everywhere else - looks like a monopoly to me.

Anyone noticed how lots of US TV shows (24 is an obvious one) only use Macs - pure product placement. I refuse to believe that the Mac is the US government standard issue - especially in security circles  undecided

Well, they definitely don't have one from an economic standpoint- they have competitors.  Very rabid competitors at that.  From a non-economic view, I would still argue that 90%+ does not a monopoly make.  They may have leveraged their marketshare in unfair ways to promote other products, but their large market share does not make it impossible to compete on the basis of OS itself.

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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2008, 06:26:03 PM »

Sorry where are the rabid competitors for Windows? Mac has about 8% share of desktops in the US (rather less in the EU) and Linux has a very small following on desktops (though it does compete well in the server market).

I can't find the website at the moment but there was an article the other day about Apple's financial problems growing apace - mainly because their one real seller (the iPod) has just about reached market saturation and is now not the cash cow it once was - especially as people have realised that watching a Hollywood blockbuster on a 2" screen doesn't really provide the Hollywood glow of a 60" plasma screen!
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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2008, 07:39:18 PM »

especially as people have realised that watching a Hollywood blockbuster on a 2" screen doesn't really provide the Hollywood glow of a 60" plasma screen!

But just think, you can watch that blockbuster on that 2" screen for only 1/10th the cost of a 60" plasma screen! What a deal!  Roll Eyes
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2008, 07:45:50 PM »

Ah but you would have to buy 900 iPods to make a 60" screen so they are more than 90 times over priced!

That means on average an iPod with video should be priced at around $5 to $6 ! (About the right price IMHO)
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« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2008, 07:53:15 PM »

That means on average an iPod with video should be priced at around $5 to $6 ! (About the right price IMHO)

Agreed! Except my opinion about iPods is not so humble.  cheesy
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Renegade
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« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2008, 09:14:59 PM »

Quote
Yes... EU = European Union... why would you think EULA?

I didn't... I was just wondering why Renegade feels that having the EU stop Microsoft's bid to compete with Google via purchasing Yahoo! is very sick! It occurred to me that he may have interpreted EU as M$' end user agreement or something...

I didn't mistake EU for EULA.

The thing is that the EU is very socialist and controlling in a lot of ways. Their answer to a problem is to create new legistation that simply makes things more difficult (same goes for Canada). I'm vehemently against creating new laws to solve problems at every turn. It's not a good thing. It merely restricts freedoms and leads down a very dark path.

Google is far more dangerous than MS. They really are the major 800 lb gorilla right now, or they soon will be. Neither MS nor Yahoo are fairing very well against them in the ad market, and some real competition for Google is needed to keep the market in check. A combined MS & Yahoo would have a much better chance at offering advertisers and content providers some real choice. Right now your 3 choices are Google, Google, and Google. If you want to stretch things, you do have a fourth option: Google.

If someone has THE perfect solution to compete with Google, AND 100 million dollars to get started, then there may be hope. But that's not likely. The most realistic approach to the problem is to create another 800 lb gorilla to keep the other 800 lb gorilla in check.

Google is driving up prices for consumers indirectly. Just go to any web master forum and look for people complaining about their minimum bids being jacked up.

As an experiment, you can try creating some AdWords ads. You'll quickly find that bidding for "super esoteric keword combination that nobody bids on or cares about but has a small amount of traffic and is worth about $0.10 when bidding" will actually have a minimum bid of at least $0.50, and more likely much higher. It's quite common to see minimum bids skyrocket to $5.00 or higher -- for 1 click...

That has the effect of driving people out of the market, or jacking up prices to cover the ad costs.

Having the EU block things won't fix the problem. It will only make it worse. Legislation isn't the answer to the problem. This problem needs to be addressed in the business domain, not the judicial domain. And the ONLY thing in sight that can address the problem is an MS and Yahoo deal.

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Darwin
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« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2008, 11:57:25 PM »

OK - nicely stated! Thank you for clearing that up. I agree with you about the futility of trying to legislate this problem away.
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wraith808
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2008, 12:10:34 AM »

Sorry where are the rabid competitors for Windows? Mac has about 8% share of desktops in the US (rather less in the EU) and Linux has a very small following on desktops (though it does compete well in the server market).

Just because they don't have market share, doesn't make them any less of a rabid competitor.  The cutesy PC vs Mac ads are directly aimed at their competitor's weaknesses in a way that you usually don't see in official ads.
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