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Last post Author Topic: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?  (Read 14784 times)

kyrathaba

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2011, 12:25:49 PM »
Our printer rarely drops off the wifi. When it does, a restart usually fixes it.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2011, 01:34:54 PM »
Our printer rarely drops off the wifi. When it does, a restart usually fixes it.

Glad to hear it - Don't change anything... Seriously.

Not more than 10min after making the previous post, the very same client in question called regarding the return of the napping printer issue. It's still on the WiFi just fine (for now), but Windows thinks it's off-line so it just sits there snoring away (even tho that "feature" was disabled...) and nothing ever prints.

 :-\ ...If the client doesn't mind, I think I'll set it on fire.  :D

tomos

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 01:42:47 PM »
Whatever you think about Skdrive remember it is MS and personally I don't trust them with my data since they lost a whole pile of community websites after a server failure (and didn't have backups).

I hope they learned the lesson (I certainly did - which is why I will never trust them to look after my files again - and that includes Office 360 or Office Live).

who do you trust (?!)
... a sort of a rhetorical question I guess
Tom

Carol Haynes

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2011, 01:52:13 PM »
Whatever you think about Skdrive remember it is MS and personally I don't trust them with my data since they lost a whole pile of community websites after a server failure (and didn't have backups).

I hope they learned the lesson (I certainly did - which is why I will never trust them to look after my files again - and that includes Office 360 or Office Live).

who do you trust (?!)
... a sort of a rhetorical question I guess

Very few offering free services ... call me a cynic but in the world of data storage I suspect you are likely to get what you pay for - and if you are paying you at least have some comeback if/when things go wrong.

kyrathaba

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 01:56:24 PM »
I agree with what you said, Carol. Like you, I don't really trust MS to not lose a backup. For that matter, neither do I fully trust SpiderOak or CrapDropbox. What I'm doing is hedging my bets: I'm using SkyDrive, SpiderOak, Dropbox, a thumbdrive, and an external HD for backups (and copying the HD to another HD that normally resides in a firebox at my father's residence). They can't all fail, right?

« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 06:15:00 PM by kyrathaba »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2011, 02:38:15 PM »
They can't all fail, right?

Well... Here's one I just went through with a client (who had and was doing nightly backups). Disgruntled employee ... Made a backup of records from year X, then deleted the server copies of year X. Nightly backups churned on for months until somebody needed one of the year X records that weren't there anymore. Backups had cycled enough times that they weren't there either.

Blind stroke of luck we found the initial export (to steal clients via sole possession of the records) backup on the root of DE's old office workstation or the client would have been SOL.

So it can happen I suppose... (eek!)

40hz

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2011, 03:35:03 PM »
Nightly backups churned on for months until somebody needed one of the year X records that weren't there anymore.

One of the reasons why I try never to do incremental backups any more. I'll do full backups, image snapshots - or sync directories. But no incrementals. All they ever seem to do is increase the potential points of failure along with the likelihood of not being able to restore a backup.

re: your client

Eek! indeed...

One more reason why it's so important to actually look very carefully at those backup logs each day. (Not that I or anybody else I know ever seems to do it religiously. :-\ ;D )


superboyac

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2011, 03:49:16 PM »
Nightly backups churned on for months until somebody needed one of the year X records that weren't there anymore.

One of the reasons why I try never to do incremental backups any more. I'll do full backups, image snapshots - or sync directories. But no incrementals. All they ever seem to do is increase the potential points of failure along with the likelihood of not being able to restore a backup.

re: your client

Eek! indeed...

One more reason why it's so important to actually look very carefully at those backup logs each day. (Not that I or anybody else I know ever seems to do it religiously. :-\ ;D )


OK...I'm going to have to pick your brain on your preferred backup procedure one day...

40hz

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2011, 04:56:58 PM »
OK...I'm going to have to pick your brain on your preferred backup procedure one day...

Not much pickin's there I'm afraid. ;D

It varies depending on who and what - and how much time you have to make a backup. The big problem with "overnight backup" is that our data footprint has gotten so large we're now running out of "night" before we're running out of disk space.

Methodology in order of preference:

0. Real-time duplication of critical files following any change
1. File-by-file simple copy
2. Directory synchronization
3. Image/snapshot backup
4. Traditional "full" backup

For most clients we:

  • Go RAID-1 for all user data.
  • Sync current user data to an external drive at midday and close of business M-F
  • Copy (w/verf) all user data to rotating secondary external drives after EOD sync is complete.
  • Image user data drive(s) weekly - retention varies by client
  • Image system drives weekly - or following any update

System file backups depend upon the OS. We follow the publishers recommendations as to what to back up and how often.

For home, I image my system drive immediately after initial installation - and following any major update after that. My data gets synced to an external drive daily. Full copy of all files gets made to a second external drive once per week. Critical "keeper" stuff gets backed up to a variety of media on an ad hoc but regular basis. When in doubt, I make copies. I'm neurotic about that.  8)

That's about it. :Thmbsup:


40hz

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2011, 05:06:15 PM »
Very few offering free services ... call me a cynic but in the world of data storage I suspect you are likely to get what you pay for - and if you are paying you at least have some comeback if/when things go wrong.

Excellent point...especially the "when" part. :Thmbsup:

I'm thinking of using a remote backup service more than I have previously. But I'll still hedge my bet with local backups.

And I'll probably use two separate service providers - and alternate back and forth between them on a daily basis just in case. 8)


steeladept

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2011, 08:09:23 PM »
That was exactly my thoughts.  I do stick with the free offerings now for 2 reasons - 1) my data isn't THAT critical (they are personal files that I could lose, not that I would WANT to); and 2) I am in a tight money crunch (stupid real estate market killed me).  However, for "free", I think I am fairly well covered between SkyDrive and my 2 local drives.  One is an internal backup drive and one is an external hard drive.  Anytime I have over 4GB of new or updated "important data" (about weekly give or take); I make a DVD copy of the data and store it at the in-law's.  It is even tested there as many of the data bits are pictures which are then loaded into the in-law's computer to view.  Makes for a decently robust system on the cheap.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2011, 07:03:43 AM »
One of the reasons why I try never to do incremental backups any more. I'll do full backups, image snapshots - or sync directories. But no incremental. All they ever seem to do is increase the potential points of failure along with the likelihood of not being able to restore a backup.

Quite true. I've actually never seen a succesfull incremental restore as they are invariable always missing incremental X. These were full backups, which (ironically) greatly increased the rate the backup drive "filled" and deleted old(er) copies.


One more reason why it's so important to actually look very carefully at those backup logs each day. (Not that I or anybody else I know ever seems to do it religiously. :-\ ;D )

Look at them for what? If it says verified/successful, and it's about that big... *Shrug* The missing data (files) weren't large enough to raise any flags (maybe 100MB total out of an 85GB backup) ... So it's pretty much a Perfect (oh shit) Storm of events.

Come to think of it, that actually would have been a good candidate for recovering with the Previous Version feature built into Windows. However this particular setup (SBS2k) is to old for that feature ... But it'll get enabled when their new (non-SBS) server comes in next month.

40hz

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2011, 09:36:19 AM »
Look at them for what? If it says verified/successful, and it's about that big... *Shrug* The missing data (files) weren't large enough to raise any flags (maybe 100MB total out of an 85GB backup) ... So it's pretty much a Perfect (oh shit) Storm of events.

If a year's worth of data suddenly drops off your backup you don't notice something is wrong? Or you don't think it's unusual when yesterday's backup had over a million items and today it's around 80% of that? :huh:


You will often need to change how your backup reports are configured since the default is usually either to log nothing - or everything.  Unfortunately, most people have them log every detail - which is useless since it can easily run to hundreds of text pages.

But that still doesn't make them totally useless. As you pointed out, most have a file count summary and success/fail report at the end of the job. And I do eyeball for certain especially critical directories. I don't care if the office temp's 'furry porn' collection went missing. But I do worry when accounting or other important directories flag backup errors on half the files.

 I had a client who was religiously backing up nightly and never checking logs. If she did, she might have noticed that starting six months earlier every log was telling her nothing had gotten backed up because of "excessive defective media sectors" on the external drives.

Another had backups - but they were all legitimately failing verification. Which the log dutifully reported.

Care to guess what happened when they needed to use one of them? :D
--///

addendum: another thing worth looking at in the log is the job run times. If backup time is steadily or abruptly increasing without a corresponding increase in the number of items being backed up, that's a red flag. It could indicate hardware issues, excessive file fragmentation, or corruption of the backup system's database or indexes. All are things worth investigating before disaster strikes.
 :)



« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 09:53:09 AM by 40hz »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2011, 11:56:58 AM »
Look at them for what? If it says verified/successful, and it's about that big... *Shrug* The missing data (files) weren't large enough to raise any flags (maybe 100MB total out of an 85GB backup) ... So it's pretty much a Perfect (oh shit) Storm of events.

If a year's worth of data suddenly drops off your backup you don't notice something is wrong? Or you don't think it's unusual when yesterday's backup had over a million items and today it's around 80% of that? :huh:

That's the point I was trying to make, there was no radical change readily apparent. The files in question are relatively tiny, file count and size change constantly (user directories get backed up too), and the client noticed/said nothing. I'm not there on a daily basis watching the goings on, I'm miles away ... So I can only react to what I know. Now if somebody had decided to tell me staff member X will/has/is about to part on shakey terms ... I can make a point of scrutinizing things in more depth. But, That. Didn't. Happen.

Hell the program that created/access the records/files didn't even (errors/warnings/odd behavior) blink ... and it supposed to be SQL based.


You will often need to change how your backup reports are configured since the default is usually either to log nothing - or everything.  Unfortunately, most people have them log every detail - which is useless since it can easily run to hundreds of text pages.

But that still doesn't make them totally useless. As you pointed out, most have a file count summary and success/fail report at the end of the job. And I do eyeball for certain especially critical directories. I don't care if the office temp's 'furry porn' collection went missing. But I do worry when accounting or other important directories flag backup errors on half the files.

I should probably mention that this assumes that the client in question has bothered to invest in a top shelf backup suite that actually generates handy reports with all the details about how it went. As opposed to just giving last run status = 0x0. Oh yeah, and the company is a tax accounting firm.

addendum: another thing worth looking at in the log is the job run times. If backup time is steadily or abruptly increasing without a corresponding increase in the number of items being backed up, that's a red flag. It could indicate hardware issues, excessive file fragmentation, or corruption of the backup system's database or indexes. All are things worth investigating before disaster strikes.
 :)

Slowly increasing backup time (other options): Dirty tape heads, failing/EOL tape, or (abrupt increase) somebody left QuickBooks (or some other crapware) running again (fun with file locking).

In a perfect world we get these types of detail. However, in SOHO/SMB ... Not so much.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 11:59:59 AM by Stoic Joker »

40hz

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2011, 01:55:23 PM »
addendum: another thing worth looking at in the log is the job run times. If backup time is steadily or abruptly increasing without a corresponding increase in the number of items being backed up, that's a red flag. It could indicate hardware issues, excessive file fragmentation, or corruption of the backup system's database or indexes. All are things worth investigating before disaster strikes.
 :)

Slowly increasing backup time (other options): Dirty tape heads, failing/EOL tape, or (abrupt increase) somebody left QuickBooks (or some other crapware) running again (fun with file locking).

In a perfect world we get these types of detail. However, in SOHO/SMB ... Not so much.

Very true. That's the world I live in too BTW.  :)

P.S.

Quote
somebody left QuickBooks (or some other crapware) running again

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Agree 100% with that characterization. :Thmbsup:


JavaJones

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Re: Windows Live Skydrive: Tried Anyone?
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2011, 07:49:24 PM »
Hmm, I have some thoughts/comments on backup and log review, but feel the thread might be getting too off-topic now. Shall we split?

P.S. I'm on vacation so it's a bit more effort to post, hence not just going ahead with my comments in a new thread. ;)

- Oshyan