Making a dream PC for cheap (as possible) - help anyone?

[f0dder]

I have had 2 nVidia cards and both have badly disappointed me (low FPS, low resolutions, uses system RAM for graphic purposes...)

-wreckedcarzz

That's your own fault for not doing proper research before buying, imho. The system-ram using cards were designed for the budget market, for which they're fine, but they're no good for games. And iirc ATI has those cards as well.

I'm staying clear of ATI because of crappy drivers and loud fans. As for driver crappyness, one thing is that it was only in the most recent catalyst they (re?)-fixed OpenGL on dualhead systems (try looking at the blender3d forum to see the kind of frustrations people have had, and the hacks they've resorted to), another thing is the dreaded BSOD and filesystem corruption that has left me scarred.

Unless you're suggesting to wait because these new lines of GPUs and CPUs will lower the price of the ones I'm looking at now, what's the real advantage of waiting for the new stuff, taking into consideration what I just wrote about my opinion on value?

-Deozaan

If you can wait, do so. The 45nm core2 CPUs enter the market priced about the same as the current breed, but with better performance and lower power consumption. Unfortunately, the available-in-shop dates for the Q9450 CPU keeps getting pushed here in .dk (start of April now >_<), so I'm off today (actually, right after posting this message) to buy a Q6600

[vegas]

Unless you're suggesting to wait because these new lines of GPUs and CPUs will lower the price of the ones I'm looking at now, what's the real advantage of waiting for the new stuff, taking into consideration what I just wrote about my opinion on value?

-Deozaan

If you can wait, do so. The 45nm core2 CPUs enter the market priced about the same as the current breed, but with better performance and lower power consumption. Unfortunately, the available-in-shop dates for the Q9450 CPU keeps getting pushed here in .dk (start of April now >_<), so I'm off today (actually, right after posting this message) to buy a Q6600

-f0dder (February 09, 2008, 03:14 AM)

Definitely wait if you can (supposed to be out before April 1st), these chips will also run much cooler and reach a much higher overclock on a stock heatsink & fan.  It seems Intel is milking the current line of 65nm Quads for all it can before it releases the reasonably priced conterparts to the QX9650 45nm Quad Core (http://www.engadget....ield-launch-details/), this is the exception to the 45nm chips that aren't available, which was released in late November, but still retails for $1080 USD at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16819115034). 

[f0dder]

Well, I hope to be able to upgrade to a Q9450 when they hit the streets here (I have a brother that could use the Q6600 with his current rig...), but I really needed a new box

Power consumption for the new system could be a lot worse:

pretty idle:   106.7W
1 cores maxed: 136.5W
2 cores maxed: 152.5W
3 cores maxed: 162.5W
4 cores maxed: 168.0W

...that's the same harddrives and graphics card as the powerslave test, but a Q6600 (2.4GHz) CPU and 8 gigatebytes (4 x 2gig sticks) of RAM. NOT bad, imho.

[f0dder]

Btw, just for fun I tried undervolting the Q6600... idle power consumption doesn't really change (I guess the speedstep/whatever stuff in intel CPUs lowers speed as well as voltage?), but with lowest voltage (can't remember how low the BIOS went ), 4 cores maxxed use only ~156W. I haven't tested whether it delivers the same speed (I think it should, since I didn't change clock frequency), and I have no idea whether it's stable (would have to run for half a day or so).

But it's interesting that there might be 10-12W saved by undervolting...

[Deozaan]

Hey f0dder, check this out:

Eight-Core Intel Skulltrail. It's a motherboard that supports 2 Quad-Core CPUs.

[Carol Haynes]

Sounds like server heaven - how about 4 dual core servers running concurrently ...

[Lashiec]

The Skulltrail platform is not as powerful as it sounds. Not because of the CPUs, but the current state of software development. It's not ready to divide calculations between 8 threads running in real concurrency. Thus it's of no use to home users, as hardcore they may be, you're better off with a sole quad core CPU.

[cmpm]

what happened to a dream pc as cheap as possible?

I thought fodder's suggestion to go with a core duo was good. Even a the cheapest and good quality along with a good motherboard. the rest is changeable easlily enough, even between computers, if you have more then one.

I'm interested in a 4-500 budget dual core-intel.

[f0dder]

It's not ready to divide calculations between 8 threads running in real concurrency.

-Lashiec

Just to clarify your statement, you mean that the software is not ready, right? Because the hardware certainly is (assuming you're not too memory bandwidth limited, at least).

And sure thing, normal people won't be able to even nearly utilize a octa-core system, not even a quadcore. But for 3D rendering, servers (especially those running multiple VMs) et cetera, those CPUs can be utilized, and are welcome.

I'm interested in a 4-500 budget dual core-intel.

-cmpm

I assume you're talking US$? And would that be for just the CPU, or total system? $450 can get you a core2quad Q9450, which is a damn fine CPU, and the one I wanted - but not on stock yet, so went for the ~$345 Q6600, which is also OK. The best bang for the buck is probably the dualcore E8400 at $250. Not much point in going lower than that, since the price differences in that segment are so small.

[cmpm]

E8400 at $250

There That leaves $250 for the rest.

Sata 250gig hard drive 65-$85$

Combo DVD 20-$ 50 quite easily

Memory-2gb- leaving room for more when desired.
Not sure but around $60-$80 is sufficient.

Case-subject to what you want and need.
Good air flow required.
Could included power supply or not-??? $

Motherboard-????? $
Asus preferably, others certainly considered.

[tomos]

I was getting advice in a couple of german forums a few months ago
a budget case that everyone seemed to recommend is the
Cooler Master Elite 330
- you can put 120mm fans in it so not so loud (not sure what fans come with it)

http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16811119115
$35 without power supply

[cmpm]

hmmm,. that reminds me-
Do you need a cooling fan for the E8400 itself?
These companies are vague about that, at least tiger direct is.
They require a cooling fan purchase with a processor.

Easily running to $600 with the OS.

But one can use hard drives and optical drives that they already have.
But it's not as fun!

[Lashiec]

Just to clarify your statement, you mean that the software is not ready, right? Because the hardware certainly is (assuming you're not too memory bandwidth limited, at least).

And sure thing, normal people won't be able to even nearly utilize a octa-core system, not even a quadcore. But for 3D rendering, servers (especially those running multiple VMs) et cetera, those CPUs can be utilized, and are welcome.

-f0dder (February 20, 2008, 09:57 AM)

Yup, software that is ready to use an octocore CPU can be counted with the fingers of one hand. For people in the media business, it's a welcome addition (Apple just released one of its monster servers with two quad core processors precisely aimed to that market), for the rest, only a money pit. Not even quad cores are used in their fullest by modern software.

hmmm,. that reminds me-
Do you need a cooling fan for the E8400 itself?
These companies are vague about that, at least tiger direct is.
They require a cooling fan purchase with a processor.

-cmpm (February 20, 2008, 12:25 PM)

That depends. If the processors is a RETAIL version, then it's not needed, the Intel cooler will be more than enough (unless you overclock), if it's OEM, then a third-party cooling device is mandatory.

[cmpm]

Thanks Lashiec,

http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16819115037

http://www.tigerdire...mp;sku=CP1-DUO-E8400

Can't find a new computer with that processor.
So you would have to build for that processor.

But this site is most likable to me.

For new computers already configured to your specs-

http://www.ibuypower...mall/lobby-intel.asp

though some parts seem overpriced

Newegg has one prebuilt that's sold out.
TigerDirect is into q6600 for new pc's, mostly.
And e-lower numbers.
I'd stay away from the refurbished pcs.
Seems to be a shot in the dark to get a good one from the reviews.

[f0dder]

As long as the processor is "retail" or "boxed" (most of them are), you'll get a cooler with it. Intel's boxed coolers are generally pretty decent, except for their celeron coolers: those are pretty sucky.

If you don't play games, get a motherboard with onboard graphics, that saves you some cash - and they come with PCI-e x16 anyway, so you can install a GPU later on. Also integrated graphics = less power drain, so you can go with a cheaper PSU.

If you really need to skimp, DDR2-667 memory is extremely cheap - but I'd still rather go for two sticks (for dual-channel operation) DDR2-800 memory, either 2x1 or 2x2 gigabytes - no less.