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Last post Author Topic: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close  (Read 45004 times)

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2008, 08:50:49 PM »
Thanks for all the help guys!  :-*

@lashiec : how do you suggest I use process monitor for that particular case... Just normally, with the registry, process and file activity turned on ?

@mouser : I don't think I have any other anti-whatever installed. Just Comodo and NOD32. So next step involves uninstalling NOD32, completely.

BTW, i just rechecked and farr now writes its ini in less than 2s. the strange thing is that it wasn't when I last tried, after uninstalling comodo. That's just plain weird and annoyingly incoherent (well, for my brain, at the moment).


Lashiec

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2008, 08:55:34 PM »
If you feel like investigating everything, turn all of them on :D. I guess process and file activity would be enough, process don't create much information, but file activity will keep you entertained for a while, filter usage is mandatory :)

mouser

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2008, 09:07:17 PM »
I use NOD32 so i doubt it's that (though to be fair i have seen NOD32 do this behavior, but not on ini files).
You might just go to nod32 options and disable some optional hueristics and see if that solves it, rather than completely uninstalling.

but it would be interesting to hear if it was really comodo causing the problem with FARR.

lanux128

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2008, 09:32:21 PM »
Be warned: Process Monitor creates HUGE logs, you might need some time to go through to it, and to understand what's happening.

yes, it's better to choose some sort of filtering plus focus from the 3 types of activity available.. btw, Armando, is this problem on a newly-installed hard-drive or an old one?

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2008, 10:54:42 PM »
After 2h of testing, monitoring, etc. well... NOD32 is the guilty one!!!!!!! I had deactivated it, etc. but it wasn't enough and it's only after complete uninstallation that IniReader gave me my first normal results : write : 23.2s, read : 19.5s. Now you're talking.

The weirdest whing is that the NOD32 service didn't show ANY activity or anything, even in process monitor. The stupidest thing is that I waited and waited before uninstalling it, even if I my intuition told me otherwise.  ;D

Now WHAT.  >:( I wonder what I can do about this NOD32 thing. Maybe I'll just reinstall it and see what happens.

Anyway... To be continued -- I have to wake up in a few hours so I shall get some sleep. Damn antiviruses and firewalls.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2008, 10:59:16 PM »
You might just go to nod32 options and disable some optional hueristics and see if that solves it

Yes... I shall do that. too late for the installation part though...  :) I was just fed up and felt like being radical...

but it would be interesting to hear if it was really comodo causing the problem with FARR.

farr is now behaving completely normally. So after reinstalling NOD and adjusting its parameters, I shall reinstall comodo and see what I can do to alleviate the slowdown problem. (I'd be sad if I had to get rid of comodo... It was pretty good, all things considered... well almost.)

mouser

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2008, 11:35:05 PM »
fascinating discovery!

as i said i actually observed nod32 doing this to be before, but only in a directory full of html files.
i personally use nod32 as my antivirus and dont notice any farr slowdown issues.. however i do have the heursistic scanning disable since i find that is unreliable.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2008, 11:39:35 PM »
Well, I'm not asleep... yet. I couldn't resist reinstalling NOD32 and see.**  Well, it still does the same thing. I've tried disabling the heuristics (AMON setup --> Options --> Heuristics), but to no avail. The only thing that seems to work is disabling AMON completely, which seems, well, unreasonable. I might be missing something, somewhere... Are you able to run João's program on your system with satisfying results?


** Edit : which reminds me, yet, again, of that joke :

Quote
A computer salesman, a hardware engineer, and a software engineer are driving...
A computer salesman, a hardware engineer, and a software engineer are driving in a car together. Suddenly the right rear tire blows out, and the car rolls to a stop. The three men get out to investigate.

The salesman says, "time to buy a new car!"

The hardware engineer says, "well, first let's try swapping the front and rear tires - and see if that fixes it."

The software engineer says, "let's just try driving the car again, and see if the problem goes away by itself."
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 12:05:19 AM by Armando »

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2008, 11:48:17 PM »
It behaves normally when I disable Files Scan on "Open"  and "Create" (AMON-->Detection Setup -->Files - Scan On). Now, I'm not sure if that's a good idea...

mouser

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2008, 12:05:42 AM »
I suppose i should have tried this before posting..
I got a write time of over 700 seconds.. doesnt make you feel very good about nod32 does it.. :(

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2008, 12:12:37 AM »
yeaaaaaah! I'm not alone!  ;D
Actually, that's kind of sad as I was expecting you to give me the secret of perfect nod32 performance...  :)
oh well.
I don't really feel like spending more money on another antivirus, but if nod32 has that kind of impact on (read/)write operations, hummmm.... Time to re-evaluate.... again.  :( Or find a way to configure nod32 so that it behaves properly (seems improbable with v.2.x). Which version have you registered? (I going to bed now... I really have to, but I'll follow that tomorrow afternoon.)

Now I'm stuck with two problematic apps : Comodo + NOD32.  :o

jgpaiva

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2008, 04:52:26 AM »
I must say this is an incredible saga. While i do understand that antivirus DO slow windows activities, i never thought it might have this kind of impact.

Still, you should pay attention to something:
if nod32 has that kind of impact on (read/)write operations
That isn't the problem, it only has impact on (read/)write INI operations, which isn't that anoying.

Now, what i find strange is why does mouser's computer behave correctly with farr and nod32, and yours (armando), doesn't.

About comodo... I think that if it was causing delays too, maybe it has some kind of antivirus "feature" that was activated and sure wasn't needed.

lanux128

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2008, 07:12:45 AM »
Armando, try lurking for a while at NOD32's forums to see if there are similar complaints on this. btw, what is your PC's  memory size?

Lashiec

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2008, 12:13:49 PM »
And be sure to report what it seems like a bug to ESET, so they can code a fix or give some insight about what's going on.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2008, 04:30:49 PM »
if nod32 has that kind of impact on (read/)write operations
That isn't the problem, it only has impact on (read/)write INI operations, which isn't that anoying.

Well, hopefully. But how can we be sure about that? If I didn't have farr's growing ini file (or you script) and performance issues where I expect speed, I would've probably never noticed. Ignorance is bliss...

Now, what i find strange is why does mouser's computer behave correctly with farr and nod32, and yours (armando), doesn't.

About comodo... I think that if it was causing delays too, maybe it has some kind of antivirus "feature" that was activated and sure wasn't needed.

first, I think we should examine how big is mouser' ini file for farr. If you remember what I wrote, the farr "freeze" got more noticeable when my ini file got bigger (hence slower to write/read) -- I earlier said  that when my my history list was cut to approximately 1/10th of its current size, the "farr-freeze" was quite small : about 2s, but nothing like 6s.

In addition, don't forget that Comodo too is/was a big slowing factor. not only Comodo tremendously affected GridMove + farr's ini file loading, but it impacted the operations of the IniReader too (writing/reading were a bit slower with Comodo than without it). Without Comodo, the ini reading/writing is quicker (MUCH quicker in farr + GridMove's case = 4-6x  faster in farr's case, 50-60x faster in GridMove's case). So NOD32 "just" added (tremendously...) to a slowdown/freeze that was already present. (And, in other words, since I don,t think mouser uses Comodo, it'S normal that he doesn't experience the same freeze)

Obviously (if you look at my earlier figures) NOD32 definitely seems to have more effect than Comodo on IniReader's read/write performance -- compared to farr or GridMove's ini read/write performance. Most probably because comodo and NOD32 don't affect the reading/writing in the same way. If I understnad well IniReader multiplies read/write operations by 10000, while in farr or GridMove's it's (I guess) only 1  read/write  operation once in a while (every 6 triggering for farr, every manual script reload for GridMove), and NOD32 is probably active analyzing the read/write process for the whole time it lasts (in IniReader the read/write takes proportionnally longer and longer  since the ini file grows byone line every cycle). Comodo might just be "affecting" the  reading/writing at the begining or end of the series of read/write... how... I don't have the slightest idea.

When I tried disabling Comodo's "defense+" features, it didn't seem to have any effect. I'll have to reinstall it though to double check.

So now I'm stuck with two problems : NOD32 + Comodo. Comodo I didn't buy, so, oh well. I might just try something else. as for NOD32, it's another story... AVAST??? Lashiec seems to get descent numbers.

Armando, try lurking for a while at NOD32's forums to see if there are similar complaints on this. btw, what is your PC's  memory size?
And be sure to report what it seems like a bug to ESET, so they can code a fix or give some insight about what's going on.


We shall do that  :)

Edit : added some precisions.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 04:34:37 PM by Armando »

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2008, 04:35:07 PM »
added some precisions to my last post.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2008, 04:37:50 PM »
BTW, lashiec : how's avast ?

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2008, 05:52:46 PM »
1) I reinstalled Comodo and completely ditched Defense+.
2) I excluded farr and gridmove's ini from NOD32's AMON

Numbers are looking MUCH better now with IniReader (although not as fast as without firewall + antivirus):

write : 33s
read : 22s


 :) So there's a way out for Comodo + NOD32 users. (I just wonder how big a lost or a security concern is the absence of Defense+...)


=======================

PS :

Previous numbers were :

1) With NOD32 + Comodo (no special changes to Defense+ etc.):

write : 743.32 sec
read : 28.6 sec

2) After Comodo's uninstallation :

write : 717.17 sec.
read : 21.12 sec

(NOD32 was clearly slowing things down, and uninstalling comodo did something.)

3) Same thing + most processes were shut down

708s
21s

4) NOD32 uninstalled, Comodo uninstalled :

write : 23.2s
read : 19.5s.

jgpaiva

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2008, 07:33:43 PM »
Oh man.. That just proves that i have good reasons to hate antivirus software!

About adding gridmove and farr's directory to the exclusions, well.. Everyone knows that neither has viruses (and won't have in the future ;) ). What I'm not sure about is if there are any chances of a virus that comes from other software crawling into any of those 2 dirs.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2008, 07:49:32 PM »
Oh man.. That just proves that i have good reasons to hate antivirus software!

they're kinda hard to love.

About adding gridmove and farr's directory to the exclusions, well.. Everyone knows that neither has viruses (and won't have in the future ;) ). What I'm not sure about is if there are any chances of a virus that comes from other software crawling into any of those 2 dirs.

I think that I'm willing to take that risk for now... It's just 2 ini. Not even the whole directory. And even if these two ini were infected or hijacked I wonder what they could do. Somebody knowledgeable could probably enlighten me about that one...

mouser

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2008, 08:00:16 PM »
I think it might make sense to exclude all .ini from scanning.. risk is extremely low and might speed up system-wide stuff.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2008, 08:02:17 PM »
I think it might make sense to exclude all .ini from scanning.. risk is extremely low and might speed up system-wide stuff.

That's what I was thinking at first, but didn't have the guts to do it since I'm not a security expert (far from it). So I guess a simple *.ini in the exclusion space should do the trick...

Lashiec

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2008, 08:14:55 PM »
It's highly unlikely that a text file could be used to infect a computer, I would go as far as to say that it's impossible, considering what a text file is. If you want to be sure, ask about it in the Living Room.

How's avast? Fine, it's free ;D. I mean, it does its work, does not get in the way, and is pretty decent for the price. Not NOD32, but a fine antivirus. Very lightweight as well, and did you know that INI operations are not affected by it? :D

mouser is using ESET Smart Security, BTW. I suppose the version of NOD32 used in the suite it's the same as the standalone one, but who knows. He used Comodo during a brief time, though, until not too long ago. Bad timing, I guess.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 08:35:26 PM by Lashiec »

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2008, 08:20:18 PM »
Thanks Lashiec!

mouser : writing "*.ini" in AMON setup --> Exclusions doesn't work. Is that what you did? am I doing something wrong?
And... are you currently using Outpost?

BTW, I retried IniReader : slowed down to 60, then 64s, and then 47s...  NO idea what changes to affect the numbers that much.

Armando

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Re: [Bug report?] farr - short freeze every 6 launch/close
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2008, 08:17:22 PM »
Warning to those using Comodo : if you don't want to experience slowdowns and freezes, You have to make the choice AT INSTALLATION TO NOT ACTIVATE DEFENSE+.

If you decide to deactivate it only after activating it at install, it WILL NOT work -- you'll still experience slowdowns, and you'll have to uninstall Comodo and reinstall it (and chose not to activate defense+). Weird, I know.
Same thing if you decide to ulteriorly activate Defense+ and later deactivate it again (like I just did) : if you try to deactivate after activating it, it WILL NOT cancel farr's slowdowns or freezes. It's a bit like if it would remain there, doing nothing valuable, but still slowing down everything (i tried rebooting, etc. to no avail. Only uninstalling & reinstalling works).

Summary : forget about defense+ altogether if you want to have a running farr without freezes.