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Last post Author Topic: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?  (Read 41921 times)

f0dder

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2008, 01:01:43 PM »
CodeTRUCKER, don't be offended, but considering all those words as inappropriate for children made me giggle. I'll tell you, children hear things like that everyday, mostly on the street, and if we're going to consider the proper names for sexual organs as offensive, I wonder what kind of sexual education are we going to teach to children.
Sexual education? My oh my, are you one of those rambling mad leftist?

(Sarcasm aside, it was recently shown that sex-ed raises the first-time age - something I personally consider a good thing.)
- carpe noctem

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2008, 01:06:51 PM »
...
Sexual education? My oh my, are you one of those rambling mad leftist?

(Sarcasm aside, it was recently shown that sex-ed raises the first-time age - something I personally consider a good thing.)

f0dder, you know as well as I do that statistics are very subjective.  It all depends on the questions being asked, but I do appreciate the tone of your reply. :)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:27:53 PM by CodeTRUCKER »

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2008, 03:41:47 PM »
Quote
DC is a great forum and at this point I say put the tagging system on the back burner until things cool down.

I think I may have left the impression that we are sitting here fevereshly working on the tagging system as this discussion rages.

Better clear that up.. No one is working or event planning the tagging system at this point.  It's simply something that has been discussed occasionally (mostly by me and wordzilla), and which comes up fairly regularly when i think about ways to improve the site and some of the things like the newsletter.  It's still in the phase where we are waiting for some inspiration and some settling of ideas, and mostly waiting for when i can convince Wordzilla to code it  ;)

So, don't expect this anytime too soon.  And if you do want it sooner rather than later, write to wordzilla and start pestering him  :up:

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2008, 09:33:07 PM »
[Note to the Reader - If you continue to read this thread, you will discover that I took a unilateral action of civil disobedience, not unlike others of note, in deleting all my threads on the forum.  While anyone can say "anything" after the fact (as I am doing), I wish to state for the record that my act was not irrational or petulant.  It was a calculated risk to make a point that individuals are important.  You have/can read for yourself how much ridicule was levied in this thread.  Fortunately, I was not banned from this board permanently and have promised that I would never perform such an act again.  I also do NOT encourage any to try it themselves as my reinstatement could very well have not been realized and the loss of communication with so many fine folks here is a loss indeed.  It should also be noted that I have painstakingly returned to all my threads/posts to rebuild them as best as memory will serve so as to make the greater continuity of Cody's Home comprehensive. For those posts where I could not remember, I sought to maintain consistency.- CodeTRUCKER]
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:46:47 PM by CodeTRUCKER »

app103

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2008, 03:18:45 AM »
I have given this tagging thing some thought, and while I generally hate tags, I do have some ideas:

Instead of focusing heavily on the whole 'opt out' aspect of things, there should be more emphasis on ways it can be used to 'opt in', and be more useful to both the community as a whole and each individual member.

Private Use Tags:

This could be integrated with the bookmarks page to sort & tag your bookmarks in a kind of Gmail style way. (only you will see these tags)

This could be used to tag your saved Personal Messages in the same way. (again, only you will see the tags)


Internal Use Tags:

This would be the ones that people like mouser could use for tagging posts for the newsletters and other purposes.

Special Use Tags:

Here is where your NSFW tag goes.

I really don't want to get into the messy debate about this, but I do have this much to say...

I do not want to become a victim of someone else's need to have a tagging system to police their own mind for them.

NSFW is just that...not safe for WORK.

This is generally known as any content that is large enough or loud enough to be experienced by someone else in 'close proximity', that could be offended or their concentration disturbed by what they might accidentally see or hear coming from your PC. This is stuff you could get fired for because it is inappropriate for a work environment.

This is kind of specific to a few things:

  • 'offensive' images
  • BRIGHT and/or LARGE TEXT that might say something 'offensive'
  • sound (technically, this would be NSFW in most places of business)
  • things that make your screen flash

This is not for most normal sized text or terms like 'wtf' or a thread that might contain a light sprinkling of 'profanity'. It's NSFW...not NSFK (not safe for kindergarten) or NSFC (not safe for church) ::)

Nor is it for a thread that contains a post that contains a link to something off this site. Labeling a discussion as not safe for work, that is perfectly safe for work, based on a link that goes to a site that is NSFW is a bit screwed up. The link should be clearly labeled, but not the whole thread.


Public Community Use Tags:

It can be integrated with the RSS to allow people to subscribe to individual tags.

As far as who determines what tags apply to a thread, how about just letting any and all users tag whatever posts they want with as many tags of whatever they want? The list can be ranked by the number of times people have tagged it with a particular term and only the top 5 would apply to the post for the purposes of 'display'.

This could also take care of the problem with tagging old posts as anybody could pitch in and tag whatever ones they want in their spare time.

This would also take away the need for the thread starter to have to tag the thread and let any member that reads it and wants to tag it do it instead, and more effectively.

This is a similar method as the one used on last.fm for tagging artists & songs. They only show the top most used tags.

Any particular thread could have a ton of tags assigned to it, ranging from 100's of people tagging something as 'cool gadget' to 1 guy tagging it as 'reminds me of my wife', and all sorts of tags in varying amounts in between.

If the tags are ranked, it's also becomes a voting system as to the relevance of the tag to a post, by the community as a whole.

Of course with the internal, private, and special use tags, they wouldn't be subject to any sort of rank by the community.



How and where to display all of this? I don't know.

Except for the private use tags, I really don't want to see or use any tags anywhere else on the site, nor do I want anything added to my profile that would reflect the tags of threads I have started. That could be very misleading and give people the wrong impression about me, what I like, etc. (I often post things I think the community will like or find useful and it doesn't always reflect anything about me on a personal level)

f0dder

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2008, 05:43:22 AM »
I am feeling quite out of place in an atmosphere of narcissism, where the focus is always on the "me, me, me."   I don't live in that environment personally or in business and I don't have any close acquaintance with anyone who does.  The only place I have this conflict is on DC.

Sorry, but the only narcissist around here is you. You've tried to hide your patronizing behind a friendly and overbearing smile, but it has shone through quite clearly. Reality check, dude.
</rude>
- carpe noctem

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2008, 06:02:17 AM »
f0dder i don't think that tone suits you..
one of the ways this site has remained so civil is that long time members here strive to be polite and understanding and respectful, even if they don't feel they are being treated with that same respect.

i especially expect those of you who are esteemed members here to set a good example for the rest of the people who might be more recent newcomers.  :down:

f0dder

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2008, 06:14:16 AM »
f0dder i don't think that tone suits you..
one of the ways this site has remained so civil is that long time members here strive to be polite and understanding and respectful, even if they don't feel they are being treated with that same respect.

i especially expect those of you who are esteemed members here to set a good example for the rest of the people who might be more recent newcomers.  :down:

I believe most of the members have strived to be polite, and have tried to conjure up a solution that would satisfy CodeTRUCKER, but still fit in with the DonationCoder mentality and community spirit. But what has been given back? Questioning/flattening of our moral standards, patronizing, etc. I'm sorry, but it ticks me off when the community goes out of it's way to try and accomodate somebody, but all we get back is a "sorry, that's just not good for me, I'm leaving".
- carpe noctem

Josh

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #108 on: January 13, 2008, 08:09:40 AM »
Quote
I am feeling quite out of place in an atmosphere of narcissism, where the focus is always on the "me, me, me."   I don't live in that environment personally or in business and I don't have any close acquaintance with anyone who does.  The only place I have this conflict is on DC.

Mouser, I have attempted to avoid this thread until now. This comment has thrown me over the top. For him to say that we have a "me, me, me" attitude on DC is preposterous. DonationCoder is the only place on the web where I see people willing to go above and beyond to help whatever random person trots on by. What annoys me more is the fact that he says this is the "only place he has this conflict". I am sorry, but I find this comment full of nothing but lies. I can go around the web to a site that comes up in my news feeds and find things far worse than what is on DC. The community here is nothing short of professional while remaining adult. If another adult cannot deal with the occasional "questionable" thread that comes up here, why should we be forced to change and implement a system just for them? That would have been like us changing our posting style to gri's because he insisted upon it.

I am sorry mouser, but I am with f0dder on this one. This is the only comment you will hear from me on this subject or in this thread. CodeTRUCKER, I am sorry, but your self righteous fake attitude is shining through and I for one am through listening to someone telling DC that we are "Better than yet worse than any site" you have come across with regards to our mannerisms and content.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 08:17:22 AM by Josh »

TucknDar

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2008, 08:30:01 AM »
f0dder and Josh pretty much summarize what I feel about CodeTRUCKER's remarks. I was thinking the same. Good luck with finding another forum that has the same high quality while still remaining so civil and polite, CodeTRUCKER...

I can't help but think that if DC is too rude and offensive, the only way to have a "clean" browsing experience would be to stick with http://localhost/

cranioscopical

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2008, 02:27:28 PM »
That would have been like us changing our posting style to gri's because he insisted upon it.

Reason why if to be "me, me, gri" grivitagniks knick-knaks not?

 :o


Josh

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2008, 02:34:17 PM »
Hush you monkey! I am the spaceman
             and I say my >Toogriks<
 are the right way!

</Gri Talking>

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #112 on: January 13, 2008, 04:09:19 PM »
Quote
I'm sorry, but it ticks me off when the community goes out of it's way to try and accomodate somebody, but all we get back is a "sorry, that's just not good for me, I'm leaving".

I think it is a mistake in life to expect every kindness to be repaid in full in each interaction.  Better that you show kindness and respect to those you encounter, and let karma take care of the rest.  How does doing so harm you?

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." -- Plato

Darwin

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #113 on: January 13, 2008, 04:40:38 PM »
I've been avoiding this thread, too... well, posting in it anyway! I'm not sure that I would characterize CodeTrucker as stating that the suggestions made in this and the other big thread on the subject aren't good enough. To the contrary, he seems quite satisfied with the suggestions that have been made. What's been getting in the way, and has driven him away it seems to me, are the personal attacks, chastising him for his sensitivity to the use of profanity in some posts and the subject matter of others.

ADDED IN EDIT: To clarify, the personal attacks have escalated as have CodeTrucker's responses to them (wherein he has more forcefully stated his position and feelings about profanity and sexual content on the site). It's a vicious cycle. However, he has not - to my reading of his posts - argued for out and out censorship of the board. He's simply requested that people voluntarily tag their posts if the content might be offensive and that such a tagging system be discussed and implemented. I don't really see this as heavy handed or self-righteous. I hasten to add, I also doubt that CodeTrucker is alone in his feelings. Look at the way it's been received and the tone of some of the responses? I am sure that with a membership of over 100,000, DC must be home to a good number of like minded individuals who have chosen to remain silent.

So, my reading of the situation is that the "accomodations" suggested were generally well received, but that the on-going personal attacks are what have driven him away.

Just my reading of the situation.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 04:51:48 PM by Darwin »

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #114 on: January 13, 2008, 04:51:51 PM »
In fairness, i think a good part of the problem is that codetrucker seems to be in a very very small minority of readers here who think there is anything to be even remotely concerned about regarding the content on this forum.

However, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be more understanding of the concern.. it doesn't cost anything to try to be understanding.  Doesn't mean you have to agree.

Darwin

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #115 on: January 13, 2008, 04:56:26 PM »
However, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be more understanding of the concern.. it doesn't cost anything to try to be understanding.

Yes - agreed! You've managed to summarize part of what I was trying to say in a couple of sentences!

Note though, that while I am sure that CodeTrucker is in the minority, I doubt very much that he is a minority of one...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

nosh

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #116 on: January 13, 2008, 09:46:08 PM »
Any other place and the attacks would have come fast and furious and have been way uglier than anything we've seen here. The reason these threads lasted so long and most responses were modulated is all thanks to the general tone set by mouser and the rest of you senior DC members. I hope he realised that.

Edit: I'm really intrigued by all this gri talk - am off to look at some of the originals.  ;D
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 09:51:08 PM by nosh »

Lashiec

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2008, 04:45:11 AM »
As I stated before, the problem is not tagging posts. I don't have a problem in tagging posts like the one about the PornTube or the few about sexual toys we had here with a "non appropriate" tag (I agree with app that until something graphical is shown, it's not considered NSFW).

The problem lies in what I can consider "non appropriate" and what CodeTRUCKER thinks it's "non appropriate". The use of words like the ones he used in the stats means that it's a problem it can't simply be solved using a simple tagging system like the one Veign brought to our attention, but using a filtering system, something quite more complicated, and that either requires us to scan and tag our messages before posting, or to design a system based on words which would be censor those ones deemed as not appropriate (OK, CodeTRUCKER, you wrote about the system you envisioned all those days, and now you have edited out everything...).

If we used a tag system like originally proposed, besides requiring us to tag practically half of our posts as inappropriate, something not desirable, it would mean that CodeTRUCKER would had to ignore practically the whole forum, a situation that, IMO, it's the closest thing to leaving the forum (while are you going to participate in a conversation in which you're missing half of what people is saying?). The other system is more appropriate, that's for sure, but implementing it requires quite some effort, it's nothing that it could be done in one day, and it could not do a double task like the tagging system. I think tinjaw's proposal fit this bill, but I don't know if someone would be up to the task of integrating within the forum.

Bah, after the recent events, I don't even know if it would be of some use.

Eóin

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2008, 06:49:38 AM »
I feel I really need to make a final comment here because since codeTRUCKER has now edited out all his posts that those of us who replied to him are now left having to choose do we a) edit out our own posts though that would only serve to suggest we have something we are ashamed of and want to hide or b) we leave our replies here where the original context in which they were made has been removed leaving them very much open to misinterpretation.

I'm going to leave my replies intact but I am going to add this explanation of what I was replying too. It has already been brought up that codeTRUCKER seemed to view himself as being morally superior to the rest of us. Of course that was very hypocritical as he was clearly the least tolerant of us all.

More importantly though I detected a very real undercurrent in codeTRUCKER's posts that we were not just just simply being bit careless for not watching our language but that we were purposely crude, foul mouthed people who should be gagged lest we corrupt the innocent or something.

I don't know if others here read it that way too but I for one took that as an insult and so I responded in kind. In fact that's not entirely true, actually I was very restrained.

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2008, 06:55:40 AM »
I'm very dissapointed in what codetrucker has done by way of deleteing all the content from this posts.  we will try to address this later so this kind of thing doesn't happen again, since it renders an entire history of conversation unintelligible.

f0dder

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2008, 07:04:34 AM »
I'm very dissapointed in what codetrucker has done by way of deleteing all the content from this posts.  we will try to address this later so this kind of thing doesn't happen again, since it renders an entire history of conversation unintelligible.
Revision-control of all forum posts? :P
- carpe noctem

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2008, 07:05:20 AM »
Quote
Revision-control of all forum posts?
yes it would be nice. we do have backups but i'm not sure it's worth the effort to restore these posts.

f0dder

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #122 on: January 14, 2008, 07:11:32 AM »
Quote
Revision-control of all forum posts?
yes it would be nice. we do have backups but i'm not sure it's worth the effort to restore these posts.
Yeah, probably way too much bother to do backup restoration. Version-control system for forums would be very interesting though, but I dunno how much implementation effort it would take (ugh!), and if it would bloat the databases too much...
- carpe noctem

suleika

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #123 on: January 14, 2008, 07:19:09 AM »
Mouser, I'm actually surprised and impressed that this is only the first time this has happened on Donation Coder - that someone has edited/deleted a bunch of posts.  I've seen it happen several times on a few forums I've participated on with quite a devasting effect in one case (where the backups then had to be used to restore many threads).

I think it is really valuable to be able to edit one's own posts here, and, as you know, the basic SMF has only an on-off toggle for these permissions.  I can imagine how a new mod could help here -  something like allowing only one edit/delete per 10 minutes, and another mod (perhaps one exists?) to monitor and flag any series of edits or deletions, so the permissions could be changed for that user before too much damage was done.

This is very off-topic now, isn't it?  Could we perhaps start a new thread?  Or split this one or something?  I keep starting a post here about tagging but not finishing it because I actually lost the thread (!) of where the tagging conversation was going.

mouser

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Re: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC?
« Reply #124 on: January 14, 2008, 07:20:39 AM »
We are already working out the detaiuls of a mod that will keep full revisions of posts in permanent history so that this can't happen again :) it will be the legacy of this event.