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Author Topic: Wanted: Electronic/Searchable Holy Books  (Read 17224 times)
tabletguy
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2008, 10:50:59 AM »

Would it be appropriate to ask if anyone knows of bilingual free electronic ones other than those listed on http://www.theophilos.sk/ ?

I'm interested in Simplified Chinese / English  (would want them to correspond when possible to aid in language learning).

Also interested in Sanskrit / English
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cmpm
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2008, 11:50:37 AM »

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

http://bible.crosswalk.com/
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JennyB
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2008, 12:25:57 PM »

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
Quote
The purpose of this web site is to set out all of the Christian writings that are believed to have been written in the first and second centuries, as well as a few selected from the early third. I have also included non-Christian documents that may have special bearing on the study of early Christianity in order to make this web site a comprehensive sourcebook. I have provided links to English translations for all of these documents. When available, the work has also been provided in the original language, usually Greek. I have also provided information and scholarly opinion regarding the background, authorship, dating, and provenance of these documents. These comments are intended to provide an introduction.

I did not want to follow the common scheme of organizing early Christian documents into the canon and apocrypha, which is simply anachronistic. Because it is the most intuitive and useful, I have ordered them based on one possible chronological scheme. My judgments concerning the authenticity and dating of the documents concerned are made in the best tradition of biblical scholarship. Nevertheless, the ordering is almost certainly wrong in some part. To provide some bearings, a range of probable dating is provided for the scheme, but this range of dating can be disputed. All dates are approximate. An alphabetical listing is also provided as an easier way to find a specific text.

See also  Roger Pearse's pages on Tertullian and others.

Into His Own - Perspective on the World of Jesus
http://www.virtualreligion.net/iho/index.html
Quote
Into His Own is designed as a tool for the historical study of Christian scriptures. Since the works in the New Testament were composed in implicit & often explicit dialog with first century champions of Jewish tradition, the bulk of the passages included here have been excerpted from works written by Jewish authors, especially those composed after the Hebrew scriptures that can be found in any Christian "Old Testament." But there are also selections from non-Jewish sources that help bring the writings of Christian authors into a clearer cultural perspective.






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tinjaw
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2008, 07:06:01 PM »

This is a very fruitful thread, but it is quite Judeo-Christian slanted. If there are non-Judeo-Christians among the readers of this thread, I am interested in all the major holy books - The Koran, Tao Te Ching, etc. Again, if you are hesitant to post in this thread publicly, send me a PM. I plan on summarizing everything sent to me via PM in a post to this thread after removing any personal info. I would at least like to be able to present a list with all of the world's major religions covered.
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Darwin
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2008, 07:11:40 PM »

(Darwin jumps up and down, trying to draw attention to himself) Yes! Me too! What tinjaw said! I'm grateful for the Judeo-Christain pointers but would also appreciate any software that covers other major holy works.
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2008, 07:52:33 PM »

tabletguy, E-Sword has 44 languages to choose from if English is not the only language you know.  Simplified Chinese is also listed on their site.

Dave
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cmpm
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2008, 08:39:19 PM »

http://www.bahai.org/

http://www.bahai.us/

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...h%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith

................

http://www.google.com/sea...S&ie=utf8&oe=utf8
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tinjaw
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2008, 09:13:12 PM »

I am grateful for all of the web links. I will be compiling them into a list. However, I want to reemphasize my original post in this thread. My main search if for software that I can use to compare, contrast, etc. the various books. I have been able to locate many of these holy texts online in the past, but it is difficult to study them in the manner I desire, and hence my request for a particular type of software application.
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2008, 05:11:56 PM »

Hi!This is my first post and I am happy to contribute with something I consider an extremely well done site.Unexceptionable precise for any scholarly purpose you can here study the Roman Catholic doctrine really in depth.
This is  the catechism:
http://www.intratext.com/X/ITA0014.HTM   this is catechism
and here quite a library smiley:
http://www.intratext.com/BRI/

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Renegade
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2008, 05:46:14 PM »

I am grateful for all of the web links. I will be compiling them into a list. However, I want to reemphasize my original post in this thread. My main search if for software that I can use to compare, contrast, etc. the various books. I have been able to locate many of these holy texts online in the past, but it is difficult to study them in the manner I desire, and hence my request for a particular type of software application.

A while back I looked through the various offerings to see if there was anything available that I could use decently to write software for exactly that purpose. However, I didn't find anything that was easily consumable. I'm speaking purely about the actual books themselves. (Some kind of markup would be needed.)

I think you may end up either going with some of the available software, or just use some of the text search/comparison software available.
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tinjaw
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2008, 06:01:06 PM »

I must say that I am completely taken aback that such a piece of software doesn't already exist. You'd think that the geeks in the computer science department and the greeks in the classical literature department would get together and create something for the academic institutions of the world. Maybe I should get a 1/4 million dollar grant and build it myself. Hey Darwin, get the paperwork started.  tongue
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Darwin
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2008, 07:02:44 PM »

OK - me too... but where to begin?!

Seriously (and I am only have joking above, actually) - I too am AMAZED (pun fully intended) that no cross-faith tool exists. Niche market waiting to be exploited, tinjaw  ohmy
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cmpm
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2008, 09:20:39 PM »

http://www.religioustolerance.org/relcomp.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_religion

http://www.google.com/sea...&q=comparing+religion

http://www.google.com/sea...&q=comparing+religion

Are you really wanting to find something in print or a program?
Do you really want to do some searching?
It's not hard. You have to think.

But no one can control the wind.

If you want to 'see' look for Abraham.
The Father of many nations-religions.

If all you want is to compare texts of different religions, It's already been done.
Search within searches, is not hard to do.

Gathering all the many texts would fill your hard drive.
And a few more.
Especially since they are still being written.
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tinjaw
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« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2008, 02:10:41 AM »

Are you really wanting to find something in print or a program?
A program. See first post.

Do you really want to do some searching?
It's not hard. You have to think.

But no one can control the wind.

If you want to 'see' look for Abraham.
The Father of many nations-religions.
Not sure I understand what you are saying here. No, I don't want to search. Searching will bring up a list of software. I'm very capable of doing a search. I don't want a list of software though, I want the personal experience of DC's members to filter that list and provide me with valuable real life experience.

The is a big difference between, "Please do a Google search on my behalf and summarize your findings." and "What software do you recommend because you are a subject matter expert with personal experience using the software in question,. And if there isn't exactly what I am looking for do you know of something close?"

But I am not sure if that is what you are asking.

If all you want is to compare texts of different religions, It's already been done.
Search within searches, is not hard to do.

Gathering all the many texts would fill your hard drive.
And a few more.
Especially since they are still being written.
I am not just wanting to compare texts, I want a reference book of the primary sources and certain pieces of data precompiled into useful means, like timelines, overlaid maps, commentary specific to the particular passages in question. For example, take some event, when do the different holy books say it happened? What do the different books call the participants? Do the call the location by the same name? Do they place it at the same place on the map? etc.
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« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2008, 03:33:41 AM »

This from an ancient post by mouser:

Big Religion Chart
Quote

The ReligionFacts Big Religion Chart is an attempt to summarize all the complexities of religions and belief systems into tiny little boxes on a single, quick-reference comparison chart.  Yes, this is impossible. As we always warn with our comparison charts, this is no substitute for reading about religions in greater detail, talking with religious adherents, etc. But this religon comparison chart can (hopefully) be a useful and accessible way to "get the gist" of some unfamiliar groups and compare basic beliefs and practices of the world's religions and belief systems.

Does nothing like all you want, but an interesting quick summary.


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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2008, 04:29:45 AM »

Yes, those who know these religions and texts and beliefs know a project as suggested would be a waste of time. It's the heart of these things that matter and cannot be seen in black and white.

Best to choose what you are interested in , and search those things out. and then a comprehensive look can be seen and organized into something readable. And possibly usable.

A most comprehensive work that I've seen that can be viewed in general is this. And it's not a program or book. As close to real as the real thing I suppose. There are other resources emerging that I'm aware of but would not fit into this forum in any way.

http://www.flightfromdeath.com/trailer_high.htm
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tinjaw
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« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2008, 05:25:16 AM »

First of, thank for the link to the film. It looks very interesting. I'm going to try an view it when I get the opportunity.

I do understand that what I am asking for is quite huge, but only if you look at it as me trying to "understand" everything about all of the religions. What I seek is only slightly more than a surface level understanding, a foundation, that will provide me with a proper perspective with which I can view related issues. I do not wish to do this as a Doctoral Thesis, I just want an educated layman's understanding - something beyond hearsay and propaganda.
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« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2008, 05:46:04 AM »

There isn't anything anyone has that you don't tinjaw.
It's built into you, the journey is the destination.

Picture religions as mountains.
The only way to see them is from the 'air'.
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« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2008, 06:54:05 AM »

There isn't anything anyone has that you don't tinjaw.
Of course there is... an organic mandible!
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app103
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2008, 09:24:56 PM »

I copied tinjaw's original post to another forum where they do a lot of political & religious debating, from all kinds of angles, perspectives, and a broad range of beliefs (and non-beliefs).

It had 2 replies so far:

Quote from: Vladd44
The thread already discusses the xian ones I have found useful.

I used the http://www.onlinebible.net/downloads.html for a long time. Much of it is free, but there are versions of the bible under copyright, those can be bought and unlocked relatively cheap ($5-$12).

Some christians I know swear by http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html , but I found it a bit light.

The UI for e sword is a bit friendlier, but it is capable of less.

As far as other texts, I have not found them united under one program. 

There are various Qurans etc, but my experience using them was typically little more than basic searching and reading.

Quote from: Knot4Prophet
Another great resource for comparative studies of the multiple versions of the bible is Bible Gateway.

Alternatively, if you want to delve back to the ancient Greek and Hebrew, an excellent resource is HtmlBible.com which contains Strong's Dictionary and Hebrew and Greek Concordance.

While neither of these sources provide software, they are exhaustive and functional nonetheless.

If you would like to keep an eye on the thread there, I have to warn you first that it's in a free speech forum that most here would probably find offensive beyond belief and it's definitely NSFW. I have asked them to please 'behave' in that thread, but there are no guarantees that they will, or for how long. I will not be responsible if you read or see anything there that you find offensive, especially if you wander around that forum outside that thread.

That being said...


--------------------------

Now my thoughts...

I think the biggest problem for a good application/resource that incorporates all the major texts, religions, and philosophies is that no believer of any particular one will want to present any other point of view in the same way that they would present the one they believe in, and generally aren't willing, capable or knowledgeable enough in what they don't believe in to present it properly, completely, and without bias.

And most scholars seem to concentrate only on one area of specialty.

I think ultimately, to get the kind of software that tinjaw and others want, it would end up being the life's work of many groups of people and scholars.

I think if a serious open source educational project was started now, by those qualified and educated enough in what it will cover & require, maybe we could see a decent application by the time our grandchildren are old enough to understand it enough to get some benefit from it.

This seems like the kind of thing that would probably be best done as a university research project.

I think the closest anybody has ever come to it was The Great Books Foundation and Encyclopaedia Britannica's Great Books of the Western World, which I purchased almost 20 years ago.

It's not just religion though...it's fiction, history, poetry, natural science, mathematics, philosophy, drama, politics, economics, and ethics, too.

If you have about 10 years to devote to reading, research, & discussion, there are a few yahoo groups you might be interested in, related to this book set.


If you would like to know more, this page has quite a bit of info on the whole reading plan, including where you can access many of the books for free (you don't need to spend $1200 to get them all):

http://www.angelfire.com/art/megathink/greatbooks/
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app103
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« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2008, 12:38:38 AM »

I just took a look at the links submitted by Knot4Prophet and on the htmlbible.com page is listed a few MS Access public domain databases for 3 different bible translations, for download. It's provided for anyone that wants to write their own software.

It's a place to start.
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« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2008, 07:28:31 AM »

I just took a look at the links submitted by Knot4Prophet and on the htmlbible.com page is listed a few MS Access public domain databases for 3 different bible translations, for download. It's provided for anyone that wants to write their own software.

It's a place to start.

I checked out the Access DB. Very nice. Effectively, PK by book #, book name, chapter and verse. (Yes - messy, but it works.) That would be very good for searching. If you can get others like it, it wouldn't be too hard to get them into a decent database (MSDE, MS SQL Server, VistaDB, PostGreSQL, etc.) and work with them from there.

There are no annotations, but if you found something with them, it could be added in another table (or the same one even).

Honestly, that's a very good starting point, and if I were to write some Bible software (I've thought about it before very seriously), I'd probably start there. It's better than many other resources that I've seen. (And I've looked before.)

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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2008, 10:26:09 AM »

Tinjaw, I agree that it is puzzling that more software hasn't been written for "other" viewpoints. But on the other hand, the Judeo/Christian body of literature has been some of the most scrutinized of any so it is no surprise that such a surfeit of software exists for that.

I think (for now) your solution is best served by finding texts you are interested in, whether in html or plain text, and find a full-featured text viewing/searching software to load it into.
Something that allows full-search indexing, keyword tagging, marginal note-taking and markups for cross-referencing between two or more texts, stuff like that.

This functionality exists for many of the Bible study apps mentioned, it is the texts themselves that are not available because the text must be formatted for the software, which is a time-consuming process to say the least.
If such software (a more generic text indexing/markup/comparison tool) does not exist, I think it would be a fantastic project for someone to start as it would be a great research tool for texts of any persuasion.
 
Perhaps the discussion should now turn to finding such a software if it exists, and what it should look like if it doesn't.
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JennyB
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« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2008, 09:29:51 AM »

First of, thank for the link to the film. It looks very interesting. I'm going to try an view it when I get the opportunity.

I do understand that what I am asking for is quite huge, but only if you look at it as me trying to "understand" everything about all of the religions. What I seek is only slightly more than a surface level understanding, a foundation, that will provide me with a proper perspective with which I can view related issues. I do not wish to do this as a Doctoral Thesis, I just want an educated layman's understanding - something beyond hearsay and propaganda.

A good book to start with might be Karen Armstrong's A History of God.  It does a good job of comparing the development of ideas about God in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

The final sentence:
Quote
Human beings cannot endure emptiness and desolation; they will fill the vacuum by creating a new focus of meaning. The idols of fundementalism are not good substitutes for God; if we are to create a vibrant new faith for the twenty-first century, we should, perhaps, ponder the history of God for some lessons and warnings.

I think that might be useful whether or not you are a theist.  Wink (BTW, I'm a Methodist with Quaker inclinations)

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JennyB
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« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2008, 11:24:44 AM »


I think (for now) your solution is best served by finding texts you are interested in, whether in html or plain text, and find a full-featured text viewing/searching software to load it into.
Something that allows full-search indexing, keyword tagging, marginal note-taking and markups for cross-referencing between two or more texts, stuff like that.

This functionality exists for many of the Bible study apps mentioned, it is the texts themselves that are not available because the text must be formatted for the software, which is a time-consuming process to say the least.
If such software (a more generic text indexing/markup/comparison tool) does not exist, I think it would be a fantastic project for someone to start as it would be a great research tool for texts of any persuasion.
 
Perhaps the discussion should now turn to finding such a software if it exists, and what it should look like if it doesn't.

In the early days of XML there was an example file that contained the KJV, the Koran and the Book of Mormon. I wrote a simple concordance to display each reference to a given word.  Unfortunately, I no longer have the file and cannot find it on the Net.  embarassed

The first requirement seems to be a way to automatically parse a text by book/chapter/verse, sura/paragraph (or whatever its native divisions are) so that they can be referenced directly by external links.
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