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Author Topic: Living without AutoHotkey - possible?  (Read 41352 times)
brotherS
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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2006, 07:37:21 AM »

[some random flaming]
I won't even answer that. Sleep about it, feel free to edit your post if you feel different about your words later.
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mouser
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« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2006, 07:44:48 AM »

heheh people sure have strong opinions about these utilities - that's a good sign really, but you guys please don't go to war over it!
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brotherS
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2006, 07:48:27 AM »

No war here... lets see if Cpilot and I can agree on the quality of other programs smiley
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Cpilot
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2006, 08:54:50 AM »

Quote
No war here... lets see if Cpilot and I can agree on the quality of other programs

I have no desire to go to war over anything. Some points were raised with a certain amount of attitude and I responded in kind.

The purpose of my original post was to point out , what I feel is a great, powerful alternative scripting language.


As I pointed out I like access to the Windows API. Being used to the power of assembly, I found Autoit to be anemic in accessing structures (types for VB users) and too dependent on wrappers to allow full access to common controls and various other tasks available on the windows operating system.
Autoit also lags behind in COM implimentation, and COM is too difficult with assembly to allow quickly creating a simple script for quick tasks.
Autohotkey IMO is basically the same as autoit, no more and no less. And I was looking for a more powerful alternative.
FBSL fills these gaps quite nicely.

I have yet to see anyone using either above to be able to access openGL, FBSL is fast enough to render openGL smoothly and seamlessly. And easy enough to use for various simple scripting tasks.

As I stated it is not for everyone, but those who would like something more robust , I would encourage giving it a look.
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mouser
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2006, 08:59:33 AM »

if there's one thing we should all know by now it's that different people have different needs, and different styles demand different tools as well.

it's always good to hear about new tools, so keep em coming!

( just don't let brotherS hear you say anything bad about autohotkey or he'll go off like a firecracker  Grin )
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Cpilot
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« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2006, 09:21:10 AM »

Quote
if there's one thing we should all know by now it's that different people have different needs, and different styles demand different tools as well.

it's always good to hear about new tools, so keep em coming!

( just don't let brotherS hear you say anything bad about autohotkey or he'll go off like a firecracker   )

Thanks mouser,
I have no desire to evangelize or convert anyone. If someone is happy with their tools (despite their limitations  Wink, and they all have those in one degree or another), then by all means stay with what you know.

But for those ready to use something with a little more......there are other tools available.
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« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2006, 06:25:20 AM »

I learned hotkey by taking a pretty fancy pocomail script I had and converting it to AutoHotKey. It basically takes text logs received in email and parses them, looks up stuff in other text file tables, modifies those tables and finally sends out a condensed email report. I now also use it to replace some QuickKey scripts I had for entering data into quickbooks from some excel spreadsheets. I also use it for some simple keyboard remapping such as uing esc to close programs with some exceptions and using the tilda key to move me back if I am in the browser.

Steve
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Edvard
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« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2006, 01:01:58 PM »

Weird. Mouser puts up a new programming board, I get inspired and head off to http://www.thefreecountry.com/ because I remembered they had a bunch of programming tools listed. Stumbled on FBSL and downloaded it, LO AND BEHOLD... The next day Gerome (FBSL author) is posting on DC... weird.
I am interested in FBSL because I do have experience with Basic and the other free basics seemed to be a little too, well... inaccessible. FBSL seems to fit the bill nicely so far, because I use Autohotkey and love it for what it does, which is a lot, and will continue to use it for the many things it does for me. But sometimes I am itching for just a little more power and scripting languages seem to be a sweet spot for me. Thus FBSL. I'll keep you posted...
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Gerome
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« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2006, 03:05:20 PM »

Yo Ed!

I like your frank discuss smiley
We can have a chat onto DC's IRC chat if you want, i can show you the deepest things that FBSL holds!
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mouser
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« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2006, 03:36:29 PM »

i think it would be useful to start a fbsl thread in the Programmers Corner section to continue the fbsl discussion smiley
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« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2006, 04:52:10 PM »

I'm relatively new to windows gui programming, so based on some of the publicity here about autohotkey I finally decided to try it out for a new app I'm making for aiding ReplayTV (a DVR similar to Tivo) users who process and edit the videos on their PC.  I did a check on the docs to make sure it was up to the task, and it seemed that it was.

Anyway, I'm about 3/4 of the way through with the coding and find it powerful, yet a bit quirky with syntax imo.  The help on the AHK forum seems to be great and when I had an issue sending an array (which are conceptually supported) to a function, it was promptly answered in a friendly and helpful way.  I have done some comparisons of the AHK docs with AutoIt 3 and I think I will probably go with AutoIt 3 in the future.  The user base (registered users) on the AutoIt forums is also larger which increases the chance for help when needed (1815 AHK users vs. 8269 AUT users as of now).  Also, AutoIT3 has AutoItX, a DLL/COM control that should let you run AutoIT commands from other languages.

I also checked out FBSL, and while it does seem interesting the user base is very small, which is a factor for me, but I could see how that could be a positve for others.  Gerome also seems very helpful to those on his forum.  While it is free now, it seems to be headed towards a commercial product and as of now, you cannot sell an app developed in FBSL, see http://www.fbsl.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=479:

Quote
Hello,
dougie wrote:
Hi,

I need some opinions from the FBSL community regarding the development of commercial grade applications.

What are your thoughts? If FBSL only for scripting and small GUI apps  or is it capable of developing commercial apps?

What would the cost be of distributing FBSL compiled exe's and who would I need to pay a royalty to?

At this point, I am not concerned about some-one accessing the source via decompilation.
Thanks
Dougie
And Gerome's response:
Quote
-1- At this time, FBSL is capable of beeing used for more than 'small appz', i think Mike has exposed the power of FBSL via his excellent editor.

-2- The cost will be determined once our e-commerce web site will be achieved.

-3- For the moment you are NOT allowed to sell any FBSL applications.

-4- The self decompilation was made to discourage some malicious people who dare trying to sell FBSL applications without my permission.
This backdoor is necessary for the moment.
The commercial version will have strong algos + specific files to identify a real sold version versus a hacked one

I am not trying to upset anyone, just wanted to point out some of my observations.  Anyhow, so after looking at FBSL, I decided to look at some other some other BASIC-type languages, including PowerBasic, RealBasic, iBasic, and PureBasic (and a few others).  I liked the idea of a relatively low cost development tool that could make Windows compatible .exe files with small file size and without need for external dll's or .NET framework installed.

Out of these, PowerBasic probably has the largest userbase, good docs, and seems well suited for commercial apps, but it costs $199 plus cost of upgrades.  What I ended up choosing was PureBasic, http://www.purebasic.com/.  It costs $69 as of now (this may go up when latest version is officially released), but that gives you lifetime updates as well as versions for linux and Mac OS X.  It's still a growing language, but seems pretty solid and the latest version, 4, was just released in beta form (readme here: http://freak.purearea.net/v4/ReadMe.html.  The docs are OK and getting better (online version: http://www.purebasic.com/documentation/).  The developer works full time on this and the community seems active and helpful.  The language seems well suited for applications as well as games.  It offers small, fast executables, as well as inline ASM support.  I am just a beginner with this language, so these are just my initial thoughts.

I guess all this goes to show is that a large variety of languages is a good thing, as everyone who is interestered can find one that suits them and their projects!
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mouser
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« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2006, 05:02:43 PM »

very thoughtfull post jroad.   smiley
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Gerome
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« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2006, 05:16:39 PM »

Hi,

FBSL forum has been hacked 3 times in the last 2 years!
I used to have more than 300 subscribed users!
Now, since months i've decided to buy a real safer service to host my forum, and more than 100 people came back in less than 6 months : that's not bad at all smiley
Plus, i've made a 500 page Help file that I'm trying to put on steroid by injecting tons of samples onto it with details as much as possible and with the the less english mistakes i can make ( sorry i'm french Wink )
Anyway, i also know Purebasic and i know his author, which is also a French fellow Wink

Enjoy!
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jroad
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« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2006, 08:25:33 PM »

Hi Gerome,

Quote
FBSL forum has been hacked 3 times in the last 2 years!
That is sad to hear.  It must be incredibly frustrating to have that happen.

Quote
Plus, i've made a 500 page Help file ...
I can see that you are working hard on your Help docs which is great!  If I could offer you a presentation suggestion it would be to have an expandable/collapsible (tree list) function listing on the left pane of your help file so users can see all the related functions for a category.  Clicking on the function category would offer an overview and index of the functions.  Also, when the dust settles from the hacker attack, I think having a website with an overview, tutorials, online docs, etc. with a link to the forum would help get new users get acquainted more readily with your scripting language. 

Good luck with the future of FBSL!
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Gerome
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« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2006, 03:45:06 AM »

Hi,

-1- FBSL has an online documentation, BUT i won't expose it yet because my web hoster allows me ONLY 1 GB traffic per month, so crossing my online help would be more destructive than constructive for the project...

-2- FBSL CHM Help has an INDEX page where ALL keywords are listed / ordered and classified by THEMES, so wher's the problem ? smiley

-3- FBSL has an online Wiki, but it is reserved to few people who cares for the project, that is to say that bring a real job into the FBSL help process.

-4- FBSL needs you Wink

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 03:46:53 AM by Gerome » Logged

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rjbull
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« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2006, 04:23:47 AM »

I use Autohotkey and love it for what it does, which is a lot, and will continue to use it for the many things it does for me. But sometimes I am itching for just a little more power and scripting languages seem to be a sweet spot for me. Thus FBSL. I'll keep you posted...

Edvard,

I thought you were DC's chief fan of PowerPro.  Are you still using all these scripting languages?

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Edvard
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« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2006, 07:18:16 PM »

First off, let me say I do not like PowerPro's scripting. 'nuff.
I have dabbled in: QBasic, Batch files, Kixtart, made a joke Java pop-up once, just couldn't quite "get" Lua,L.in.o.l.e.u.m, AutoIt3, and now do everything scripty in AutoHotkey. Personal productivity stuff for work, nothing special. FBSL is attractive to me because it appears to have just enough extra power to make learning it worthwhile, but still simple enough I can whip up stuff on a lunch break.... but I still might keep an eye on Lua. The one thing that constantly flies over my head is the Windows API. I like Autohotkey because it's just so easy to make something quite useful, without needing to know all that about handles and classes and objects (Oh, My). My favorite use is to automate batch processing stuff through command-line utilities.
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Cpilot
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« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2006, 07:25:27 PM »

Quote from: Edvard
The one thing that constantly flies over my head is the Windows API.

I'm no expert but I do enjoy dabbling with the windows api, if you ever need any help of wish to ask questions I would be more than happy to try and help.  Thmbsup
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« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2006, 05:00:02 AM »

My favorite use is to automate batch processing stuff through command-line utilities.

Good grief, all those languages?!   tellme

It's probably too late now, as these are almost all plain DOS, but if you're into batch processing  via command-line utilities, you might like to know about
BFDS  http://www.filegate.net/bfds/
which is the repository for the Fidonet BATPOWER echo's files.  It contains lots of useful tools, including some not radily available elsewhere.  Also, don't overlook Horst Schaeffer's DOS batch ("PBATS") and Win32-bit command-line tools at
http://home.mnet-online.de/horst.muc/



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brotherS
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« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2006, 06:01:02 AM »

I moved Stefan's discussion to http://www.donationcoder....orum/index.php?topic=2517 - better try to keep this more on topic smiley
« Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 09:22:05 AM by brotherS » Logged

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Edvard
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« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2006, 10:35:57 AM »

Quote
Good grief, all those languages?!

No, I don't USE all of them, I have TRIED them all and settled on AutoHotkey. I still use batch files for system stuff, but AutoHotkey gives me GUI-bumps. smiley
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brotherS
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« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2006, 03:10:04 PM »

Updated my first post in this thread to reflect my current use.  Kiss
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« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2006, 03:23:24 PM »

brotherS,

  • to help newbies in several IRC channels with a variety of FAQ triggers

I've been mildly puzzled by this one, because I assumed that the quantity of information you keep would be fairly large.  In that case, I'd have expected you to use something more like a Treepad-clone, for better organisation?

In fact, you have such a wide and varied use for AHK that I'd have thought you needed a GUI interface to help keep track of it all; hard to remember the less commonly-used items.

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brotherS
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« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2006, 09:49:13 AM »

brotherS,

  • to help newbies in several IRC channels with a variety of FAQ triggers

I've been mildly puzzled by this one, because I assumed that the quantity of information you keep would be fairly large.  In that case, I'd have expected you to use something more like a Treepad-clone, for better organisation?

In fact, you have such a wide and varied use for AHK that I'd have thought you needed a GUI interface to help keep track of it all; hard to remember the less commonly-used items.
I admit it's not easy to remember ALL of hundreds of tirggers, but I'm doing pretty well so far. And should I forgot one that I didn't use in weeks I just hit my shortcut that brings up the AHK script where I can search for it smiley Would I use some Treepad-clone I wouldn't be able to access that info so quickly.

And using triggers that contain names or parts of names really help too. For example, ".pdo" expands to "D:\Downloads", the "p" means "path" and "do" makes it easy to remember it's for the "Downloads" folder. Very helpful, I use shortcuts for my most often used folders. A few other examples: ".weather" expands to the full URL of an online weather forecast for my city, ".cinema" to the next cinema's URL, ".mail" for my GoogleMail account, etc.
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« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2006, 10:49:38 AM »

should I forgot one that I didn't use in weeks I just hit my shortcut that brings up the AHK script where I can search for it smiley Would I use some Treepad-clone I wouldn't be able to access that info so quickly.

I should have thought of using a hotkey to bring it up  smiley  presumably in whatever editor you're using.

Type Pilot from Two Pilots stores its abbreviations in a tree structure, which should work well for large numbers of phrases.  But you seem indissolubly wedded to AHK  smiley  After all, it does a lot of other things, too.

Quote
And using triggers that contain names or parts of names really help too.
For example, ".pdo" expands to "D:\Downloads", the "p" means "path" and "do" makes it easy to remember it's for the "Downloads" folder.

Jon Knowles' ABCZ rule for making abbreviations - found by following one of Harrie's text expander posts - is a very useful way of systematising abbreviations/shorthands for normal text, but needs modifying for things like paths and whatnot.  You system looks sensible, as long as one sticks to it  Wink

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