Main Area and Open Discussion > Living Room
What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
CodeTRUCKER:
Let me post my original reply to CodeTrucker when he raised the issue as a way of giving my feelings on the matter. I hasten to add that these are just my opinions, and i have no intention of forcing the forum to conform to my views:
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Here is my original letter to Mouser, too
Hey Mouser,
First off, I hope you feel honored that I am even offering the following post for your consideration. If you hadn't impressed me with your dexterity of thought, wise counsel (to me and others) and your genuine care I wouldn't waste my time or yours.
I have a dilemma that is mine and any others that have to pay a great price in continuing daily at DC.
My dilemma is I love the community and the relationships that have made it worthwhile, but the profanity, coarse/sexually-oriented jokes and graphic content that has come across my feed today alone is becoming untenable. As one that kept outside for the last year I have perceived an ever-increasing slide to the toilet in terms of quantity and content. Let me illustrate...
It is like coming to a very nice restaurant where I've dined numerous times a month. Recently, I've noted that rotten food is being served with ever-increasing frequency and foulness. Some of the foulest has even been disguised to make it past the watchful eye of the maitre d'. Yes, the food of the overwhelming majority is tasty and nutritious. At least for the present, but it has become painfully obvious that continued patronization of this present 5-star establishment could soon be downright dangerous. Once it was simply a matter of avoiding certain situations and sitting down at the table was an anticipated high-piont. Regrettably, this experience is now rife with taint. The choice has now become hard. You begin to wonder if the excellent cuisine is worth the risk? Not if, but when it gets worse the obvious answer will demand a verdict. Like so many, many others before, the once great paragon of quality will erode to a head-wagging byword because the proprietor would not risk losing customers by placing limits on what could be offered to all the other patrons.
Jessie, if you are uncomfortable with the parallels, good! Not because I wish to put anything on you, but because you now know what I feel. In short, I am watching the Fall of DC and if the slide towards decadence isn't reversed Cody's Home will just become another slimy porn site. "CENSORSHIP!" Well, what's wrong with it anyway? You're a scholar so you know that the context when censorship was an evil exists outside of our present state.... yeah, right! You know as well as I do that censorship has become the tool of those that manipulate our everyday lives. If I was to even hint in the forums at cleaning up the experience you know what kind of reaction there would be, but no one seems to care what an affront it is to those that still have a modesty in their character. I could go on at length, but unless you require examples, I'll spare you the filth, but I will share a perceived statistic of my own observation. On Jan 6, 2007 (one year ago) I became aware of some subtle uncleanness in the forums and I decided I would become a proficient Proxomitron user as I would then be able to enjoy DC without having to be accosted by vulgarities. It was wonderful! I became even better at designing my filter to the point I have also acquired the ability to design regexes as my need defined. After a year of building my filters and gaining the experience with this marvelous little tool, I cannot now keep up with the ever-growing flood of grotesque postings. The frequency of inappropriate postings is more offensive to the senses now with my bulwark of Proxo filters, than it was in the beginning when I had no filters! I can't imagine what it would be like if I had to face it in the raw. Even with my filtering I have not and can no longer let my children have access to DC. This in itself is a tragedy.
Like I said, I have a dilemma and it is because I have invested so much into what DC was at the beginning. I have spent much more time attempting to master filtering as a compromise than I have done either coding or participating in the forums. What I am saying is I've done all I can do. I cannot compromise further. As I see it, I have only three choices...
{1} I sit and watch DonationCoder become a brothel and see my beloved community enter the tragedy associated with malignancy with the inevitable outcome.
{2} I just cut my losses and leave everyone to fend for themselves against the rabid wolves.
{3} Take a stand and use my skill at the logos to dismantle the attacks that would come against me and anyone that believed the people we have come to love are worth the fight.
Ok, you know me and you already know my answer, but this time I would unsheath my sword as a scalpel rather than a broadsword.
My intent is to rewrite my tag line and make it larger litle by little each week. I don't have the verbiage completely crafted, but it goes something like this...
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It is respectfully requested that participants in the community at DonationCoder please respect the rights of all that wish to enjoy the oasis that we have crafted together by refraining from public vulgarities and sexual content. Such verbiage and subject matter is inappropriate in public and can be offensive to the point that it will drive others off at the very least , vexing their modesty and at worst, spurring the zealots to have DonationCoder added to the ban lists. Even today, DC could not pass the defenses of NetNanny or CyberSitter. Etc., etc., etc.....
Anyone who finds posts with offensive content, please make use of the "Report to Moderator" link at the bottom right of each post. If you don't tell the Moderators, they will never know.
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This doesn't really say what I want just yet, which is why I have offered this lengthy missive. I am requesting your help in this effort. I am persuaded you have felt a similar grief at times, unless I am completely fooled. I am persuaded you and I can win back DC for all of us, but no battle was ever won without bloodshed and figuratively, there will be losses, but if there is a viable alternative, I'm all ears.
My next plan of attack would be to simply post some posts in varied forums to ask if anyone else finds the vulgarities, sexual content and the profanity in poor taste and unwelcome? This would have the dual effect to encourage the modest to express themselves and it would be a subtle nudge that could cause some to feel a gentle shame for their mis-doings that would urge them to make an appropriate change. Who knows, maybe just such a "nudge" could change an eternal destiny?
Perhaps you are too close to perceive the glacial current? You wouldn't be the first. It is for this possibility I am offering my thoughts from a distant perspective.
I am cognizant that my letter requires some rumination and I welcome a dialectic to the beneficial future of DC. I also realize I am somewhat tampering with your wallet, but it was the ideals you offered in my genesis at DC that made me look deeper. At leat in some ways, you and DonationCoder have created this virtuous "Frankenstein." I hope you like your handiwork. I do.
In closing (for this part of our conversation), I do not have an axe to grind. I do not have any monetary agenda. I have no handle to notch. I have no mean-spirit or grudge. I have no one I wish to ostracize. I do not wish to manipulate DC for personal and arrogant self-righteousness. I wish to annoy no one. I do not desire to offend anyone. I am not Billy Graham, but I am a champion of that which is wholesome and good. I perceive that to allow people that have found a refuge here to continue in the same behavior that made them lonely in the first place is to forever entomb them to despair. If someone suffers the pain of loneliness because they never take a bath, it is the purest of love and the kindest charity to make it plain to him that he stinks. If someone is forever desparing because they always see themselves as a "victim," that one is forever doomed to their own personal dungeon. BUT, if one can accept the truth that they are "culpabalis prit," they will have the means to unlock the heavy door and walk into a brighter experience. Since they were the ones that put themselves in, they can be be the ones to take the first steps to get themselves out.
Jessie, my pen flows freely from my heart as I have a great passion firing my zeal! I believe we can effect a paradigm shift in the status quo. It's a good thing for us that a hundred guys felt the same way when they were in a small mission in south-central Texas.
I hope you share my passion and will dialog on what can be done. One thing is for certain... "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."
Let me hear from you,
CodeTRUCKER:
Here is a letter I sent a moderator.... slightly edited to remove direct naming.
Hi XXXX!
Excellent! I wondered who would be the recipient of my concern.
First off let me say that my main disappointment was that Xxx has posted so many excellent offerings that I was grieved that something of at best "questionable" was offered. I ask you, do you think any argument could be made that it added anything to the site and the lives therein, except another listing for the ones with prurient interests? Given the massive preponderance of not only legal and psychological evidence of the wake of devastation it leaves, relatively "new" evidence of even physiological and pathological destruction is also documented. As a father of 5 daughters it is impossible for me to think of any young female that is the subject, nay object of a deviant lust as benefiting herself. You show me young girl or old woman that has been robbed of her privacy even if she willingly traded it for monetary gain, and I'll show you a little girl that was not cuddled by her father when she was a toddler, told she was a beautiful and precious "Nuzzle Pie" when she was pre-teen and called "Princess" when she was seventeen.
As far as the "Living Room," would you or would anyone you know allow this content to freely flow in the living room, dining room, garage or wherever if there was the always present issue of having children present. I don't let my children "surf" as the internet is without a conscience or soul, but it was a higher standard in social etiquette that made me hope to allow my children to gain from the expertise in coding so richly available on DC. That hope is now squashed and I am relegated to being the go-between to protect my children from Cody's Home. This is a sad state of affairs. So in a word, yes, I do think a moderator should stop what is inappropriate on a public forum with such an innocuous moniker as the "Living Room." I'm not blind to the ravages that have been a destroyer to even whole civilizations in the name of Good as singular zealots ran amok in their crusades, but if a moderator doesn't curb the profane from expressing freely that which is their locus then that moderator is, in effect, censoring what fare all others must consume. Case in point, if a moderator is not willing to tell the member that the tag line "Complain about bad software here" is not appropriate, dangerously deceptive and removal or an appropriate "Rated R" warning must be affixed, then that moderator shares responsibility for all (including small children) that would trustingly and unknowingly follow that link anticipating needed assistance for some errant computer program only to be accosted by the now-disclosed content. If you're for one your against the other even inaction doesn't relieve those in authority from the dichotomy.
Not to worry, though as I was in conversation with Mouser about my concerns even as I received your e-mail. I have expressed my concerns to him and his response is most encouraging as he has given me his blessing to take it to the forums with reasonable stipulations. Even though he and I are diametrically opposed on why and how the big blue marble spins, I have always respected him for his willingness to not use his veto power for his own personal agenda. In return, he has expressed his appreciation for my perspective. I am gratified that I will be able to address these issues at large. Anyway, Thanks again for the response and I hope my long reply has not been too inconvenient.
TucknDar:
Can't say the content nor the language that the YouPorn-thread exemplifies bothers me in the least, TBH. I don't think "bad" language is bad, but this may obviously be because English isn't my first language. I realize many people see it differently in English speaking countries and maybe the US in particular, but it doesn't offend me.
I also haven't seen any graphic content on DC that I find either offensive or to have crossed any "line of appropriateness" on this fine forum. I'd say that posting pictures from the websites that are linked to in the thread you mention would probably cross that line on this particular forum, but I don't think that would ever be a problem on DC.
As mouser says, it's probably a good idea to avoid politics and religion on DC, but I think that any other kind of censorship would take away the "bite" if you know what I mean. One thing I like about DC is that everyone can be themselves and feel at home, and I think that if you tell people that they can't use the language they're used to or have fun talking about the things they like, the forum would be less interesting. I'd certainly feel that way.
In short, I don't see the problem at all...
CodeTRUCKER:
I can definitelly see the problem.
While i rarelly find a post "offensive" (and when i do, i post a reply saying so), i can see what you mean about some threads being a bit inappropriate. I often don't reply to avoid getting more attention to the material.
-jgpaiva (January 03, 2008, 05:28 PM)
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Good plan, maybe, but given the opportunity to PM, could a more appropriately pivate communication be warranted?
I think this very thread is important to discuss what is appropriate and what isn't, so that frequent posters can be alert and avoid going that way.
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It is the lack of this kind of thing that has fomented this discussion.
Just to reiterate, i don't think there's need to be anal about this, because that also causes a bad environment, let's just have a talk about it.
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Bad for who? The ones that have the respiratory distress or the smokers? (remember, I'm using the references to tobacco use as an example. I used to work in a hospital as a Respiratory Therapist.)
One thing about this that i consider important is that threads/posts that are NSFW are marked as so, or have the spoiler tag.
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Mouser mentioned this in his reply to my original letter and I don't have a clue what either of you mean?
Veign:
My quick thoughts
I have never been offended by anything that I have the choice to view - its just not where I stand on things. I am very much open to the allowance of others to express their views and feelings and if I don't like I have the choice and power of what to do next. Listen, respond, move on, its my choice.
Religion and politics don't bother me as I have my views (much stronger on the religion aspect as I am well on the side with science) but totally understand at how quickly a thread on these topics can degrade. So, not allowing general discussion of these I can totally agree with. But I would say a blanket statement about not allowing any threads on either of these topics can be dangerous as technology plays a role and sometime a very interesting role that members may like to know about.
DC is forum geared towards technology (in every aspect) and the YouPorn thread is just another post on what and where technology is. Having or allowing open discussions are a good thing. Marking them as NSFW or such is not a bad idea and also having a mod chime in if the thread has drifted too far of course may not be bad either.
Censorship is a slippery slope as what offends others may not offend some. Like, Smeg. Not sure how a word with very little meaning could offend someone (not belittling someones feeling, just trying to understand). What about fark? Should that be banned? Where does it stop? Where does it start?
Oh, and I get a kick out what Zaine posts on his blog. For someone so smart to post exactly what he feels without worrying about PC is so rare to find.
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