Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 03, 2016, 12:58:28 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?  (Read 33347 times)

KenR

  • Super
  • Blogger
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 826
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2007, 05:51:19 AM »
I would love to get the 200 GB, 7200 RPM drive Hitachi Laptop Hard Drive, but how can I tell if it will work in my Gateway computer? Do I just get it, try, and return if not or is there some general way I can know or reference that can tell me?

Thanks, Ken
Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
Clinical Psychologist
Jacksonville, North Carolina  28546

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2007, 05:56:40 AM »
Can't see why it wouldn't work if it's the right connection type (SATA vs IDE/PATA), old BIOSes didn't support large harddrives, but that's pretty much a thing of the past now, unless your laptop is old :)
- carpe noctem

vegas

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2007, 09:41:47 AM »
Can't see why it wouldn't work if it's the right connection type (SATA vs IDE/PATA), old BIOSes didn't support large harddrives, but that's pretty much a thing of the past now, unless your laptop is old :)

Yeah, what he said. :)

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2007, 09:54:47 AM »
Great! Another guinea pig (I hope)! As I've stated, I'm quite keen to see/read more real world/real user's experiences with the upgrade to a 7200.2 drive vs. 5400 rpm. For me to go down this road will involve ordering a drive and paying to have it shipped to me, so I want to be sure that it's going to be worth my while  ;) Thus, Ken and Armando, if either or you do this, please let us know how things turn out.

PS Thanks, vega, for already telling us about your experience. Would you mind elaborating on it a bit? For example, have you noticed a big difference in terms of battery life and heat dissipation? How about performance - how significant is the increase (yes, I know this is pretty subjective!)? What might be more interesting - from everyone who goes down this path - are the specs of the notebook that you upgraded. I'm considering doing this on a first generation Centrino with an anaemic 1.4Ghz PM processor and 2GB of 266MHz RAM. I'm wondering if the upgrade to a 7200.2 drive is going to benefit me that much given that the bottleneck on my system is the processor (not that I really suffer that much)...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2007, 11:32:03 AM »
No no no Darwin, we won't tell you a thing. You'll have to find it the hard way.  :P

I spent a little while yesterday looking at different models. I thought that the Seagate Momentus was the best choice in its category (at the store where I can buy it : http://www.microbyte...p;sort=4a&page=2), but it seems like there are other interesting contenders...

They also have the Samsung HM250JI, 250gb 5400 rpm... This one is 139 $, compared to 179 $ for the Seagate 160 gb ST9160823ASG 7200 rpm.

So I went searched a bit more, and here's what I found at tom's hardware :

Quote
The M5S top model is called HD250JI, spins at 5,400 RPM and outperforms almost every other 2.5" hard drive. Even better, it does so without requiring more energy than its direct competitors. Only 7,200 RPM drives such as the Fujitsu MHW2160BJ deliver quicker access times and better I/O performance, but in terms of data transfer performance the new Samsung drive is already very close. Both drives are backed by a three-year factory warranty.

Fujitsu shows better overall performance and quicker access times, while Samsung's drive offers 50% higher capacity and lower energy requirements. So, which one should the real enthusiast go for? If you're looking for maximum performance, there is no way around the MHW2160BJ, as it even surpasses Seagate's Momentus 7200.2 with higher transfer rates and better energy efficiency. For maximum performance for desktop replacement PCs, I'd go for the Fujitsu drive at this time, because additional storage can be added via external storage devices. The mobile user should rather go for the Samsung HM250JI, because it offers almost comparable performance, but has the capacity reserves you might need on the road.
http://www.tomshardw...capacity/page10.html

And elsewhere (http://www23.tomshar...e.com/storage25.html ) when compared to others (and particularly the Seagate), the 5400 rpm Samsung scores impressive results. Apart from I/O benchmarks, the Samsung is almost neck to neck with the Seagate, it's cheaper, and it's got at least 80 GB more of storage. Not bad.

But I'm certainly not a specialist in benchmarks and I don't know what these I/O benchmarks tell exactly...
------------------------------------------Samsung-----Seagate

Storage capacity------------------------------250gb       160gb        [OUPS : I MADE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE HERE...]
Price------------------------------------------139$CA       179$CA


Interface performance (Mb/s)------------------115.8        121.4
Random access time (ms)----------------------17.3         14.2
Maximum read transfer rate (Mb/s)-------------61.8         59.6
Average read transfer performance (Mb/s)------46.9         45.8
Minimum read transfer performance (Mb/s)------31.1         30.6
Maximum write transfer performance (Mb/s)-----61.6         56.5
Average write transfer performance (Mb/s)-----46.6         44.8
Minimum write transfer performance (Mb/s)-----30.7         30.2
Windows XP startup performance (Mb/s)--------7.0          7.9
File writing performance (Mb/s)-----------------59.0         53.9
Fileserver I/O benchmark pattern (I/O op. /s)----581         671
Web server I/O benchmark pattern (I/O op. /s)--552         663
Database I/O benchmark pattern (I/O op. /s)----603         678
Workstation I/O benchmark pattern (I/O op. /s)--643         756
Idle power consumption (W)---------------------0.9         1.1
Maximum power consumption (W)----------------3.1         3.8
      
what do you think ?

Edit : by the way, I've read in some forums that the Samsung had some firmware problems when it first shipped the hard drive, but according to Tom's hardware, it should be a problem of the past...  http://www.tomshardw..._capacity/page4.html

Edt 2 : Darwin : one thing that the benchmarks seem to tell is that it's not so much about the rotating speed anymore... seeing some 5400 rpm drives beat 7200 rpm drives certainly tells something... or am I misunderstanding the numbers???

Edit3 : added the price and storage capacity of the beasts
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 02:32:54 PM by Armando »

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2007, 11:37:59 AM »
Forget about "interface performance", it's almost 100% irrelevant in real use. You want to pay attention to the actual read/write rates... and again, ignore the burst figures and go by the "long linear transfers".

0.2W and 0.7W differences in power consumption, nothing to lose sleep over imho. The speed differences are also pretty small, I'd go for the seagate since it has lower random access time - you might be able to feel the effect of 3ms there.
- carpe noctem

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2007, 11:47:12 AM »
thanks f0dder.
so what would the "long linear transfers" numbers be? Average write transfer performance ? File writing performance ? none of these ?


PS (for those who'd like these specs too) :

Samsung HM250JI

Drive Transfer Rate   150 MBps (external) / 66.3 MBps (internal)
Seek Time   12 ms (average) / 22 ms (max)
Track-to-Track Seek Time   2 ms
Average Latency   5.6 ms
Spindle Speed   5400 rpm


Seagate ST9160823ASG

Drive Transfer Rate   300 MBps (external) / 59 MBps (internal)
Seek Time   11 ms (average)
Average Latency   4.17 ms
Spindle Speed   7200 rpm

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2007, 11:51:58 AM »
(added the price and storage capacity of the beasts to my previous post with the benchmarks -- reply #29)

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2007, 11:56:33 AM »
I currently have a Samsung 120GB 5400 rpm drive installed (HM120JC) and have been very happy with it. Most of my previous 5400 rpm drives have been IBM/Hitachi Travelstars. I like the Samsung drive because it's QUIET - Travelstars are always thrashing... I also like Toshiba drives  :up: Thanks for the link to Tom's Hardware - I'd forgotten about that site. I'll have to check out how my current drive stacks up - I did... OUCH! Time to buy a newer drive...

Like f0dder, though, I'd go for the faster drive... For me, size isn't a huge factor as I already have a 500GB external and by the time I fill that up no doubt we'll be seeing TB notebook drives...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2007, 11:58:32 AM »
Ooh! And thanks for the link to Microbytes. I've not come across them before and they ship country-wide... Maybe that's not a good thing... This could get me into trouble  :o

EDIT: Maybe not... it looks like I can have any modern drive that I want, as long as I want a SATA drive  :( Best I can do is a first generation 7200 Seagate Momentus but that's not likely to improve much for me beyond the drive I already have!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 12:06:41 PM by Darwin »

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2007, 12:03:42 PM »
 ;D didn't even notice !

Like f0dder, though, I'd go for the faster drive... For me, size isn't a huge factor as I already have a 500GB external and by the time I fill that up no doubt we'll be seeing TB notebook drives...

Thanks Darwin. Well, I'm just wondering if the Seagate is really that faster... would it be noticeable in my everyday computing, indexing, making backups...????

Considering the Samsung's got much more storage capacity, that it's cheaper and that it's supposed to consume even less power (not by much though), I'm starting to wonder.

But... if the "random access time" difference  between the Seagate and the Samsung really makes a difference then... maybe it's worth it. But, again, f0dder seems to suggest that it might not even be noticeable... hummmm...

Darwin

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,984
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2007, 12:09:43 PM »
Dilemma, dilemma, dilemma... I'm in the same boat. *Should* I pursue trying to find either an IDE version of the Samsung drive or a second generation 7200 rpm drive?! Or should I just be happy with what I've got? A little fence sitting to watch which way the wind blows is looking pretty attractive right now!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2007, 12:13:48 PM »
Oh, didn't notice the size difference of the drives.

Personally, I'd be satisfied with 160gigs in a laptop, since I don't use one as my primary computer (the only reason I'm using laptop right now is because I'm fixing a couple for the museum - I do eventually want a laptop, though). Heck, size-wise, I'd even go for 64 or 32 gigs if it was solid-state...
- carpe noctem

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2007, 01:39:24 PM »
okay... But considering the price/size/performance ratio, seems to me like the samsung is -- or might be -- the deal.

What I'm actually interested in is to know whether the Seagate will REALLY be faster than the Samsung or if the difference will be negligible. (because if the difference is negligible I don't see any point and spending more money for a smaller drive that consumes a bit more energy -- albeit not much).

 in other words : yes I'd like a faster drive... but, according to the numbers, would the Seagate really be noticeably faster ?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 01:41:56 PM by Armando »

Lashiec

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,374
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2007, 01:52:46 PM »
Well, you have the benchmarks, which are able to tell you which is faster. Samsung access times are "slower" (as if someone could notice 3ms of difference...), of course, in computer time that's a lot, but the Samsung has overall faster speed in transfer, both in reading and writing.

On the other hand, the Seagate excels in server benchmarks, which means it handles better than the Samsung multiple reading/writing requests at the same time, this is influenced by seek times. Of course, the Seagate consumes more energy, which is normal being a bigger diskdrive and (I suppose) having more platters than the Samsung, that means more mass to move for the drive motor.

I think you have to weight pros and cons, the Seagate is bigger, has better access times, and handles server workloads better, but consumes more energy, which is something to consider with laptops, and costs more. The Samsung have better transfer speed, consumes some less juice and is cheaper, but is smaller, and access times are worse along server performance. It's your call, but each one is the perfect nemesis of the other ;D

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2007, 02:40:04 PM »
Thanks Lashiec... When you described the seagate as being bigger, I realized I made a stupid mistake : it's the samsung that's much bigger : 250gb....

Considering that my laptop is not a server, do you think that the I/O benchmark numbers are important ? If I'm more concerned with overall speed in indexing, backuping, searching, loading programs into RAM, etc., which numbers should one be looking at?
f0dder mentioned "random access time" and "long linear transfers"...

KenR

  • Super
  • Blogger
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 826
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2007, 04:37:11 PM »
okay... But considering the price/size/performance ratio, seems to me like the samsung is -- or might be -- the deal.

What I'm actually interested in is to know whether the Seagate will REALLY be faster than the Samsung or if the difference will be negligible. (because if the difference is negligible I don't see any point and spending more money for a smaller drive that consumes a bit more energy -- albeit not much).

 in other words : yes I'd like a faster drive... but, according to the numbers, would the Seagate really be noticeably faster ?

I spent the better part of the day researching and thinking about related issues. I found one site that was very helpful: http://www.storagereview.com/. This site is all about hard drive performance and it was extremely helpful to me in making a decision.

One drive I considered very seiously was the 250 GB Western Digital Scorpio (WD2500BEVS) which is supposed to perform similar to a 7200 rpm drive despite the fact that it is a 5400 rpm drive. It is very quiet. You might take a look at that drive if you have not.

Regarding sound, there was only a 1.5 db difference between the loudest and quietest drive in the review I read for the particular drive I purchased. Given the fact that my laptop fan is always running AND that the drive will sit insite my laptop, I seriously doubt I would be able to distinguish that difference. Also, while the drive was the loudest, it was described as queit or very quiet by everyone who tried or reviewed it.

Ken
Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
Clinical Psychologist
Jacksonville, North Carolina  28546

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2007, 05:19:04 PM »
thanks for the info and the link Ken.
I did check that link for the Samsung, but didn't see the 160 GB Notebook Drive Roundup the first time. Here's the conclusion :
http://www.storagere...tebook.sr?page=0%2C7

The Seagate performs really well in "everyday situations", but doesn't seem to be great for games (??? I have no idea why... And the article authors don't seem to be puzzled by that...), which is not a problem in my case since I don't even own one game.

Anyhow... I still haven't made up my mind. It's still pretty much between the Samsung HM250JI and the the Seagate Momentus ST9160821A... the Hitachi Travelstar 5K160 looks good to, but is not available nearby and seems less attractive than the Samsung.

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2007, 05:50:28 PM »
Actually, the store nearby has the NEW Hitachi Travelstar 7K200. It's pricey. $221.45
But it really out performs any other laptop drive out there. Really.

See the review's conclusion (and the benchmarks) : http://www.storagere...0K9A00.sr?page=0%2C7
Quote
That said, the story remains the drive's single-user performance. In the end, the Hitachi Travelstar 7K200 blows away the competition by margins seldom seen in the hard drive world. Though it does not come cheaply, the Travelstar's showing is so superior to that of any other drive's that it stands as the only choice for those striving to attain true desktop-level performance from a portable system.

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2007, 06:21:04 PM »
Ok... The Hitachi is a SATA2 hard drive. I don't think that SATA2 would cause a problem even if my laptop has a plain SATA hard drive at the moment... I believe that both SATA and SATA2 can be used with my inspiron 6400 SATA controller... Or am I mistaken ?

(I think that I'm going for the Hitachi Travelstar 7K200 (7200 rpm) after all : it's really fast, quiet, and doesn't seem to consume to much power... And I found a great price on eBay...)

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,029
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2007, 06:39:35 PM »
A SATA2 drive should be able to connect on a SATA1 controller just fine, at "degraded speed"... but since no single drive can reach even SATA1 max speed sustained, well... :)
- carpe noctem

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2007, 06:54:28 PM »
Ok, thanks f0dder. I'll buy the Hitachi Travelstar 7K200 after all. It's 200gb, and there's a good deal on ebay... I'll try to order form the US and see if I can get lucky again  and save some tax money...  :P

Darwin : There's also a good price for the 200gb drive there : http://www.directcan...20Travelstar%207K200

KenR

  • Super
  • Blogger
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 826
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2007, 07:24:05 PM »
The price is less on MWave (all other things being equal).

Ken
Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
Clinical Psychologist
Jacksonville, North Carolina  28546

Armando

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,727
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2007, 08:39:31 PM »
Yes, the price is not bad. But do they ship worldwide (Canada) ? It doesn't look like it...

vegas

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Laptop hard drive... 5400 or 7200 ?
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2007, 11:40:56 PM »
Great! Another guinea pig (I hope)! As I've stated, I'm quite keen to see/read more real world/real user's experiences with the upgrade to a 7200.2 drive vs. 5400 rpm. For me to go down this road will involve ordering a drive and paying to have it shipped to me, so I want to be sure that it's going to be worth my while  ;) Thus, Ken and Armando, if either or you do this, please let us know how things turn out.

PS Thanks, vega, for already telling us about your experience. Would you mind elaborating on it a bit? For example, have you noticed a big difference in terms of battery life and heat dissipation? How about performance - how significant is the increase (yes, I know this is pretty subjective!)? What might be more interesting - from everyone who goes down this path - are the specs of the notebook that you upgraded. I'm considering doing this on a first generation Centrino with an anaemic 1.4Ghz PM processor and 2GB of 266MHz RAM. I'm wondering if the upgrade to a 7200.2 drive is going to benefit me that much given that the bottleneck on my system is the processor (not that I really suffer that much)...

Not sure I even need to respond now, but why not.  Without changing other hardware, I had a much more responsive system with the new Seagate 7200 drive, launching of programs was much zippier, and transfers were faster than before.  I must note this was going from a 5400 ATA/IDE drive to a 7200 ATA/IDE drive.  Results may differ from SATA, but I would expect to see similar increases with the exception maybe being this new Samsung series of 5400RPM drives.  But if you are speaking of a generic 5400 drive (not a special series or premium drive) that comes with a standard laptop, you will no doubt see an increase in performance.  A side note, Seagate drives come with a 5-year warranty, but most people typically upgrade laptops every 2-4 years, so if that even matters as drives will be even faster (or of a different interface) by then.  I ordered a $17 external enclosure for my former 5400 80gb drive, so I could make some use of it yet.