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SQLNotes...what is it exactly?
Armando:
I'll think about it more.... But, quickly, I tend to find that in the context of IQ, the "Ecco way" makes filtering operations more complex -- ie : I'd prefer to have all items in a grid appear there because they meet the source.
1- I constantly need to filter items out if they "shouldn't" appear un the grid... (It seems like it would be easier to filter out items not meeting the source, than filtering out items not really meeting the source, but appearing in the grid nevertheless (because their parents meet the source...).
2- "Flat view" (hierarchy off) only show top level items,
3- Search for certain fields/tags related items only return top level items and misses all the others,
etc.
Just some quick thoughts before going out for a bite... :)
Armando:
edited previous post
J-Mac:
Pierre, Armando, superboyac:
These are the kinds of details that make IQ so difficult for me (and I suspect, others) to learn!
I also have "lost" items that I was sure had been in a given grid, and "found" items where I didn't expect them. Is the above concept documented anywhere at all? So many times when I ask how to do or find certain things I am told by someone or another that it isn't yet in the wiki or anywhere else in particular, but that if I keep trying this and that and read forum posts I'll eventually learn about these features.
Is that really how everyone else has learned how to use IQ? Don’t get me wrong; I know that any worthwhile software application, and particularly a database-type application, requires the user to do some degree of trial and error in order to become proficient in the various features. I definitely don’t expect to just open IQ and know everything. But the learning curve really has been painfully slow with IQ. Mostly because I want to start using it for real, often-used data; stuff that I need to access and edit/update regularly. But up to now I am only putting "test data" into it. Real enough data that I can play around with, but nothing that I truly need. I'm still not confident enough in how I can make IQ work to put my important data into it.
Someone who knows IQ - really knows it well - needs to compose some sort of documentation that covers all the bases. If not in detail at least an overview, but an overview that covers all the topics, all the features. And then it must be fleshed out as quickly as reasonably possible. I don’t think that a lot of people will be willing to buy into a program that is as complex as IQ without any kind of "instruction manual" - that is, other than former Ecco users.
Thank you.
Jim
Armando:
I also have "lost" items that I was sure had been in a given grid, and "found" items where I didn't expect them.
-J-Mac (November 10, 2008, 09:31 PM)
--- End quote ---
It can be easy to "loose" items** :
1- when one doesn't really understand why items show up in a grid or not. (I'm not saying that in a dismissive way...)
2- because some parts of the UI need to be rearranged to allow the user to have a clearer view of what filter is at work.
Concerning point 1 : really, the only thing one needs to understand is that SQLNotes/IQ grids show items that meet the filters. They are NOT folders. That's all. There's "nothing" more to it (at a basic level). Fundamentally, SQLNotes works like a desktop search software : take X1 (very similar to SQLNotes in many ways) : the different grids show what meets the filters/sources...
Now, what usually happens is that a lot of users don't realize that some filters are on, and others are off, etc. and that "hierarchy mode" is off, and that "show context parent" is on, etc.
This could be because the UI needs some improvement (a Basic/Advanced UI will eventually be available). It could also be that some of the ways SQLNotes works should be slightly modified. And it could also be that a lot of users just don't ready the wiki at all... (I'm not saying you haven't, J-mac... But it's clear to me that most don't. Which is okay, I guess.)
** Note that if it's easy to "loose" items, it's equally easy to find them : ctrl-f (show-details can be ticked if you want to have more control over your search): type a few words... Select the items you want to modify, press "enter".
In the newly opened/focused "search grid" : modify the fields that need to be modified for these lost items to meet the grids filters/source you want. OR, even easier, drag/drop the items to the different opened grids, if they are opened (normally, the appropriate fields will be ticked/modified when you drop the items on a grid, so that they meet the grid's source -- unless you've modified some "per grid" settings in the manage grids window...)
[...] the learning curve really has been painfully slow with IQ. Mostly because I want to start using it for real, often-used data; stuff that I need to access and edit/update regularly. But up to now I am only putting "test data" into it.
-J-Mac (November 10, 2008, 09:31 PM)
--- End quote ---
The learning curve can be quite steep at the moment... Yes. I hope it'll get better, with clearer documentation, maybe, and also (maybe again), with some UI simplifications.
One thing that really helps though, is to REALLY go through the already available documentation. Because, it contains enough info to get someone started.
Someone who knows IQ - really knows it well - needs to compose some sort of documentation that covers all the bases. If not in detail at least an overview, but an overview that covers all the topics, all the features. And then it must be fleshed out as quickly as reasonably possible.
I don’t think that a lot of people will be willing to buy into a program that is as complex as IQ without any kind of "instruction manual" - that is, other than former Ecco users.
-J-Mac (November 10, 2008, 09:31 PM)
--- End quote ---
I'm sure that once SQLNotes gets out of beta stage, all the necessary documentation will be there... Features and the UI has not completely stabilized... so....
Some have started to enrich the wiki with their own experiences, so there's progress.
I will try to contribute too.
Thanks for your comments J-Mac. :up:
superboyac:
Egh...ok, Pierre, I definitely didn't think about all those scenarios you described and I can see how the behavior is useful. On the other hand, I probably agree with Armando that perhaps the "ecco" way may not be the best way for default behavior, or not the most intuitive. But I really haven't thought it through enough to really have an opinion, especially once you bring up all those scenarios.
Jim, don't be afraid of it, though, whether you understand the program or not, it's still usable. Actually, don't even bother learning more than you need to.
So, Pierre, regarding my problem, the issue for me is not the source/grids/checkbox thing. To be more accurate, my real problem is that I have a grid open that shows a bunch of items. I highlight all the items and export it to Excel. I expect to see all those items in Excel, naturally. So, like you said before, the exporting is the one that needs to be fixed. How you do the source/parent thing is fine with me, either way.
So, you see, Jim? I don't need to understand how the filtering works if I don't need to, when the real problem is that the Excel export doesn't work intuitively.
(Nice post above Armando. Yes, good documentation is going to be a challenge for Pierre, there's so much to cover!)
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