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Author Topic: SQLNotes...what is it exactly?  (Read 412089 times)
Darwin
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« Reply #150 on: November 30, 2007, 02:25:12 PM »

Congratulations on the birth of your son and the project, Pierre! Yeah, I know, it's a bit late... I have a 3 1/2 year old and a 5 1/2 year old - LOADS of fun.

Anyway, sorry I'm not being very productive WRT beta testing. I AM installing the latest builds but I have not yet found the time to sit down with SQLNotes and put it through its paces. I'm beginning to feel a bit pathetic, but I will get there. BTW the GUI is coming along nicely (this is one aspect of the programme that I have been able to "track" since I first installed it)  Thmbsup
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Darwin
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« Reply #151 on: November 30, 2007, 02:29:43 PM »

PS the more I think about the name, the more I like it - don't change a thing. SQLNotes just feels right to me!
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PPLandry
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« Reply #152 on: November 30, 2007, 02:44:17 PM »

Thanks! Actually, it was a baby girl. Now a real (pink) princess.
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Darwin
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« Reply #153 on: November 30, 2007, 03:05:44 PM »

Oops! My apologies - I read: "birth of my 4 1/2 year old" and added son to it...  embarassed
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superboyac
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« Reply #154 on: November 30, 2007, 03:29:57 PM »

Thanks for the history, that's good to know, it's a very ambitious project and it's very promising.  I would think the ecco people at yahoo would more than welcome your software seeing how rabid they are about ecco.  I would have expected them to be extremely grateful that you've attempted to successfully build on ecco.  Weird, maybe they still like the old version.
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superboyac
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« Reply #155 on: November 30, 2007, 03:36:02 PM »

Oh sh--!  I just screwed everything up.  I was deleting items in one grid and apparently it's linked to the original items in my first grid.  Now all my titles are gone!  What's the rules for deleting stuff?  How do I know if I'm deleting something from the grid only or from the entire database?  Also, how do I control duplicate items?  As in, how can I have duplicates (I change one they all change) or copies (each one is separate, but my have the same content)?
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PPLandry
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« Reply #156 on: November 30, 2007, 03:38:07 PM »

Ah! I don't blame them. Ecco has been dead for more than 10 years, and NetManage promised many times to release open-source, but never did. Frustration is high and they are afraid that it won't run anymore on new OS's.

Plus, many projects were started, inspired by Ecco, but never made it through "vaporware" stage.

Also, some loud-mouths individuals, which have interest in Ecco, do not want to see a replacement.

SQLNotes is significantly different than Ecco, IMO it is better, but there is always resistance to change. But I had good support from the Ecco community in general, 2/3 of the 500+ registered users are from Ecco.

Last, Ecco was at version 4.0. I'm in pre-beta and still have significant work to do to bring SQLNotes to a released level.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 09:19:41 PM by PPLandry » Logged

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PPLandry
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« Reply #157 on: November 30, 2007, 03:40:53 PM »

Oh sh--!  I just screwed everything up.  I was deleting items in one grid and apparently it's linked to the original items in my first grid.  Now all my titles are gone!  What's the rules for deleting stuff?  How do I know if I'm deleting something from the grid only or from the entire database?  Also, how do I control duplicate items?  As in, how can I have duplicates (I change one they all change) or copies (each one is separate, but my have the same content)?

Items don't belong to a grid. Items exist period. Delete an item in a grid, it is deleted from the database. You don't delete items from a grid, you remove them. To remove an item, delete the field value which included it in the first place.

Try opening a backup to get your info back.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 09:20:52 PM by PPLandry » Logged

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PPLandry
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« Reply #158 on: November 30, 2007, 03:44:24 PM »

>Also, how do I control duplicate items?  As in, how can I have duplicates (I change one they all change) or copies (each one is separate, but my have the same content)?

Copy/paste will create a duplicate item. Otherwise, change an item, it will change whereever that item is displayed (in the same grid or in another grid)
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superboyac
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« Reply #159 on: November 30, 2007, 03:45:50 PM »

it's gone in the backup also.  Damn.

OK, I have to firmly understand the difference between removing and deleting.  If I see an item in a grid and I don't want it there anymore, but that item also appears in other grids or even in the same grid somewhere else, how do I just remove that one item line?  If I use the big red "X" button, I'm assuming that will delete it permanently from all the entire database.  So what will remove just the item, but still keep it in the database?

Can you explain how duplicates work?  I noticed that when i did the =songtitle thing, the items appeared as duplicates, and if I deleted them from one grid, it got deleted everywhere.  What if I just want to copy it without having them be linked?
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« Reply #160 on: November 30, 2007, 03:55:01 PM »

SQLNotes makes backup on file close .SNBK1 and .SNBK2. You can try those.

>If I see an item in a grid and I don't want it there anymore, but that item also appears in other grids or even in the same grid somewhere else, how do I just remove that one item line?

An item is displayed in a grid if it meets the criteria. Check the source of the grid. Typically, if the source is SongItem, the item will be displayed if the SongItem field is checked, or has text, for that item.

Deleting an item, does just that. It is removed from the database.

If items appear as duplicates in the same grid, it is usually because Grid>Hierarchy is not checked.
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superboyac
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« Reply #161 on: November 30, 2007, 05:43:20 PM »

the "make backups" was unchecked in the options.

I'm still not understanding the intricacies of deleting, removing, copying, duplicating.  I'm a little afraid to go on until I understand it completely because I don't want to screw up again.
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superboyac
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« Reply #162 on: November 30, 2007, 06:01:30 PM »

OK more questions...

So, I think I understand the Grid->Hierarchy option.  If it's checked, the items appear in the proper hierarchies.  If not, the items appear in the hierarchies AND as individual items in one long list.

Also, the ItemParent fields you made are not working.  I dragged them into my column, but they don't display the parent in the field, and unlike yours, mine is not read-only...I can click inside it and type stuff.

Also, for the MusicItemType, I made that a pop-up-list, with the options "Artist, Album, Song".  The pop-ups appear fine, but I can also type something else in there.  I want to lock it to just the 3 items in the list so nothing else accidentally appears there.  I tried checking the "read-only" "entry must be in the list" options but nothing worked.  Either way, I was still able to type something in the field.  How can I lock it?
[edit] Ah!  I see what's happening.  THe changes don't appear until I close the file and reopen it.  You might want to look into this.  It can be confusing to the user.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 06:20:27 PM by superboyac » Logged

PPLandry
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« Reply #163 on: November 30, 2007, 08:50:29 PM »

>So, I think I understand the Grid->Hierarchy option.  If it's checked, the items appear in the proper hierarchies.  If not, the items appear in the hierarchies AND as individual items in one long list.

If hierarchy is not checked (and save item state is off), all items that meet the criteria will be displayed regardless of the parent-child relationship. This list is exactly what Excel would see if you linked Excel to SQLNotes data. It is also what the pivot table/chart will see. I can explain further if needed.

>Also, the ItemParent fields you made are not working.  I dragged them into my column, but they don't display the parent in the field, and unlike yours, mine is not read-only...I can click inside it and type stuff.

This is a small bug. When dragging a field some settings are not applied immediately. Also changes to fields are not applied to opened grids. Close the grid and re-open it. It should work just fine.
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PPLandry
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« Reply #164 on: November 30, 2007, 09:23:27 PM »

I'm still not understanding the intricacies of deleting, removing, copying, duplicating.  I'm a little afraid to go on until I understand it completely because I don't want to screw up again.

In your example, you are viewing the MusicItem field (or folder if you like the folder metaphor). Any item that have something in this field will be shown. If on line 96 you erase the MusicItem cell (=Alien), that item will no longer be shown in that grid (F5 to refresh)

The folder metaphor is sometimes useful (in particular for yes/no fields). You can put items (i.e. notes) in that folder (i.e. check that field).  Double-click that folder in the properties pane will display all items in it (i.e. all items that have a value for that field)

Another interesting metaphor, is to view your database as a large spreadsheet. Each item is a row. Each field is a column. Grid allow you to choose which row to display (the source, filter, etc) and select which column to display.
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superboyac
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« Reply #165 on: December 01, 2007, 02:06:30 AM »

OK, I understand how the program works now.  I still have questions:

1) Is there a way to remove an item from the grid without removing it from the database?
2) Is it possible to copy an item in a grid and place it in another point of the grid (duplicated), without creating 2 separate items (they are the same, they just appear in two different places)?  If so, how would I know if an item that has been duplicated is a duplicate and not a stand-alone item?  Ideally, when you edit an item and that item appears in other places, you want to know that you are going to be changing it in all those places.
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« Reply #166 on: December 01, 2007, 05:53:19 PM »

>removing an item from the grid

Item appear in the grid if (1) they meet the grid criteria and/or (2) they are sub-items of items that meet the grid criteria. Like I said earlier:

In your example, you are viewing the MusicItem field (or folder if you like the folder metaphor). Any item that have something in this field will be shown. If on line 96 you erase the MusicItem cell (=Alien), that item will no longer be shown in that grid (F5 to refresh)

>Copying items
Top level items (TLI) position is determined by the sort criteria. Sub-items can automatically be sorted if Grid>Sort criteria applies to sub-items is checked. Otherwise, you can drag-drop (or use buttons) to move sub-items up/down or right-click on the parent and click sort ascending or descending.

The same item can appear more than once in a grid for a number of reasons:
1- It has multiple parents. If these parents are displayed in the grid, opening each parent will reveal the sub-item
2- If hierarchy is not checked and both a parent and the item meet the criteria, then the item will be displayed in the grid (as a TLI) and as a sub-item of the parent (if the parent is opened)

If you want the same item to appear in 2 different places in a grid, you can assign it 2 or more parents. If the parents are shown, each will show the item.

To know if two items are really just one, you can look at the itemID (or other info, such as parents, values, etc)

I prefer not to use the word duplicate which can be confusing. The same item can appear in different grid (of course) but as explained just now above, in the same grid also. 2 different items may have the same text for a field, but they are totally distinct.
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superboyac
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« Reply #167 on: December 03, 2007, 11:29:11 AM »

Well, PPL, I think I'm pretty much sold on your program.  I think SQLNotes is pretty revolutionary.  I don't know if you're aware, but a while back, I wrote the big notetaking review here:
http://www.donationcoder....ive/NoteTakers1/index.php

SQLNotes definitely belongs on top of that list.  It offers features and flexibility that are truly unique as far as I can tell.  I will say one thing; it's not for everyone.  I'm not saying it's difficult to use, but it's not what you expect from a notetaker.  I don't even think I would call it a notetaker.  It's more of an outliner than a notetaker, but it does notetaking as well as any notetaker.  Furthermore, it's Access for normal people.
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superboyac
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« Reply #168 on: December 03, 2007, 11:38:15 AM »

Well, now that I'm going to commit to SQLNotes, I'm going to have lots of suggestions for it.  Here's my first one.

Searching should be an essential feature of the program.  Other notetaking software like EverNote and Zoot have awesome searching capabilities.  If SQLNotes is used like I'm thinking it's going to be used, it's going to have a ton of information, and it should be easy to find what you're looking for, especially if you don't remember where you put it.  RIght now, SQLNote's search doesn't work at all for me, but I think it's because I deleted the Search grid that came default.  For some reason, it doesn't work in the default database for me, I don't know why.  Anyway, I'm sure PPL will beef up the search, it's pretty important.
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superboyac
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« Reply #169 on: December 03, 2007, 11:47:18 AM »

OK, I hate to say it, but I just lost all my data again.  I get an error saying "error opening grid. check grid source criteria".  All the backups say the same thing, so it looks like I lost everything.  This is a concern for me.  I love the program, but I'm going to be putting a lot of time into my grids, and I can't really afford to lose that information.
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« Reply #170 on: December 03, 2007, 12:00:05 PM »

OK, I hate to say it, but I just lost all my data again.  I get an error saying "error opening grid. check grid source criteria".  All the backups say the same thing, so it looks like I lost everything.  This is a concern for me.  I love the program, but I'm going to be putting a lot of time into my grids, and I can't really afford to lose that information.
Don't worry. Nothing is lost. First try to do a repair. If that doesn't work, checkout the source, filter, sort criteria. If all else, send me the file (betasupport@sqlnotes.net).
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PPLandry
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« Reply #171 on: December 03, 2007, 12:11:31 PM »

Well, now that I'm going to commit to SQLNotes, I'm going to have lots of suggestions for it.  Here's my first one.

Searching should be an essential feature of the program.  Other notetaking software like EverNote and Zoot have awesome searching capabilities.  If SQLNotes is used like I'm thinking it's going to be used, it's going to have a ton of information, and it should be easy to find what you're looking for, especially if you don't remember where you put it.  RIght now, SQLNote's search doesn't work at all for me, but I think it's because I deleted the Search grid that came default.  For some reason, it doesn't work in the default database for me, I don't know why.  Anyway, I'm sure PPL will beef up the search, it's pretty important.
It is a good idea to dedicate a grid for search results. If the original is deleted, create a new grid and check "detault grid for search results" in the grid properties

To search, simply hit CTRL-F. type what you want to find
- for text: enter the text, use the comma to separate text blocks
- for dates: enter the date to search
- for number: enter the number you're looking for

You can specify what field to search for, or leave blank to search all fields

You can specify a source grid to limit the search to items in that grid

You can choose where to put the results. Leave blank to show it in the default search grid

If the search results are not quite what you want, you can edit the filter box which was generated by the search

You can specify a source to the search results grid. This will be taken into account. i.e. you want to exclude old stuff, you can put ItemCreated > now - 365 to search in the last year

History is coming soon (browse back, forward) to quickly go back to a previous grid state.
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« Reply #172 on: December 03, 2007, 12:12:05 PM »

PPLandry,

I have installed SQLNotes and fired it up to make sure it was properly installed. However, I have not yet used it. But I am going to guess, based on superboyac's comments that it is using a MVC approach, with the data stored in a DB and the grid (I think that is what it is called) is just a view into that DB. If I am correct, it might be useful, PPLaundry, to explain what that means in term of (not) losing data when you simply delete a view.

Again, just guessing both on the "issue" and that such an explanation would be helpful.
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« Reply #173 on: December 03, 2007, 12:14:48 PM »

Well, PPL, I think I'm pretty much sold on your program.  I think SQLNotes is pretty revolutionary.  I don't know if you're aware, but a while back, I wrote the big notetaking review here:
http://www.donationcoder....ive/NoteTakers1/index.php

SQLNotes definitely belongs on top of that list.  It offers features and flexibility that are truly unique as far as I can tell.  I will say one thing; it's not for everyone.  I'm not saying it's difficult to use, but it's not what you expect from a notetaker.  I don't even think I would call it a notetaker.  It's more of an outliner than a notetaker, but it does notetaking as well as any notetaker.  Furthermore, it's Access for normal people.

Thank you very much. A lot of thinking and effort has gone into this project. Your input will be very valuable.

I've read your review and I'd like to compliment you on this excellent review Thmbsup. I was hoping that SQLNotes, or whatever the final name will be, could one day be included  smiley
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superboyac
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« Reply #174 on: December 03, 2007, 12:15:08 PM »

ok, i got it back thanks.  Yeah, I forgot that I was trying to use that top bar with the filter/sort fields.  So, what's the deal with that top bar?  Whenever I try to use it, I get that bright red status bar on the bottom with some error dialog in it.
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