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Last post Author Topic: The worst thing about Macs  (Read 33968 times)

Lashiec

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2007, 12:00:37 PM »
Well, that's truly the first time I hear someone doing a critical defense of the Mac platform, without falling back to the usual Windows bashing, and pinpointing the real advantage of the system, instead of saying "it wins by default". Excellent read, and I'm glad that you can use a Mac and criticize Apple at the same time (what they did with the iPhone and the iPod as lately is simply unbearable).

I wish lots of people at certain forum would learn something about how to voice your opinions...

For the record, I always said, that, although I prefer Windows on a desktop, if I had to buy a laptop, it would be a MacBook (or an Asus EEE). If you're going to use a totally proprietary system, at least let's introduce some variety in the computer ecosystem at home

Now, let's go reading Renegade rants at those links :D

EDIT1: Wait, wait, I forgot the obligatory funny shot. Now they're on their way to assimilate YOU!. Of course, I'm talking about shorts and flip-flops (not the electronic ones)

EDIT2: Less smileys and one unneeded line removed (kudos to the one who founds which one)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 03:34:36 PM by Lashiec »

Armando

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2007, 03:18:49 PM »
Well, that's truly the first time I hear someone doing a critical defense of the Mac platform, without falling back to the usual Windows bashing, and pinpointing the real advantage of the system, instead of saying "it wins by default".

Well, there are certainly a few of them -- e.g. this one by Chris Pirillo : http://chris.pirillo...osoft-windows-vista/

My secret plan is to consider Linux (Ubuntu, most probably, or even PCLinuxOS) or OSX as my next laptop's OS. I know that it will be a difficult move (I do find XP snappier and more versatile than Mac OSX, and like most people, I’m used to XP), but since I don't like what I've seen in Vista, I might as well switch to something else before getting even more immersed into Microsoft's ways.

There's no point for me in doing a sharp analysis of OSX/Linux/Vista now -- technology and prices won't be the same in 1.5-2 years.

Laughing Man

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2007, 08:30:04 PM »
If your going get Linux on a laptop, I'd say..

1) Go with a Dell laptop (they sell Ubuntu with it)
2) Go with a Macbook (the hardware is pretty uniform so most fixes to broken things like webcams would be easier)
3) Go with a laptop that is documented on the forums to have mostly everything work.

My VAIO is a pain to get working (well at least the webcam at least). Everything else pretty much works without trouble. My next laptop I purchase (after I finish grad school or near the end of it) will be a Dell or a Macbook Pro.

Ralf Maximus

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2007, 07:16:52 AM »
Has anyone here experimented with Linux and/or OS X running within VMWare?

If so, how's device emulation?  If it works at all, I would sort of expect it to be spot-on.  But...?

Carol Haynes

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2007, 07:54:54 AM »
OS X on VMWare is kind of difficult to do. Firstly it would be illegal as it would break most of the Mac OS X licensing agreemens and also as I understand it you need to have copies of the ROMs from an Apple machine - and I am not sure how you would use those in VMWare.

nontroppo thank you for your long and detailed background and pros and cons of the Mac. That is a really useful summary. It is good to see some genuine advantages that I wasn't aware of and aren't immediately apparent when you use a Mac. Having said that I think a lot of the 'insurmountable' differences are fairly specialised for the average user. I am sure ligatures are important if you are into publishing - but I'd guess the majority of users are pretty much unaware of what ligatures are.

Quote
I've sampled everything on PC desperately, but I've yet to find anything of the same quality. Windows abounds with apps with buttons everywhere, 10 different toolbars, scattered feature sets. As a writer, I get more bang for the buck, my writing has even improved, because the tools I have are better for the job.

I agree with you here - I really hate the plethora of unlabelled and cyptic buttons etc. you see littering most windows apps. Having said that I really hate the way the Mac deals with menus. I suppose you get used to it if you use it all the time but I think right clicking in a window for a context menu is a much more intutive and user firendly way of doing things (incidentally MS nicked this idea, along with the Task Bar, from Acorn Risc OS which for me had huge potential - but they were pushed out of the market because they were too small and aimed at a niche market).

Quote
And yet I cannot blithely dismiss my current platform as being no better ***IMO*** than what I've used for the previous 12 years. I have less lock-ups, slowdowns, un-reproducible shutdown freezes, less registry tweaking, less spyware battling. I have software which I couldn't find in Windows (and I can run XP in a VM when I need it, intermingling apps as if they were the same OS), while still benefiting from core unique OS X services which I value. More bang for the buck? For me, it clearly is.

In all fairness I don't experience those problems under Windows XP. OK I have had occasional glitches to deal with - but usually it is my fault for installing some crappy bit of software that screws things up! As for malware - that is just a function of scale. The Mac community seem to pretty glib about this but there have been malware issues with MacOS X and they will only grow in time. Having said that it is true that Windows is the prime target but only because it is ubiquitous.

The VMWare point is a good one - but that just goes to show the unfairness of the Apple approach. OK it is up to Apple if they want to spread OS X beyond its own hardware but the nature of what they do with their OS means that they have a MUCH easier time than Linux and Windows developers to ensure compatibility. Apart from the obvious reason I have never understood the protectionist stance with OS X and now it uses Intel architecture I would have thought it was in Apple's interest to release OS X to a wider audience. It is precisely the reaon why Windows is so dominant and is the one fundamentally inspired decision that MS/IBM made all those years ago with MS DOS - love of hate Gates as you like but the decision to license DOS was truly brilliant.

If you get more bang for buck then that is great - I still stand by my argument that the majority of users won't ;)

Ralf Maximus

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2007, 10:49:22 AM »
Re: Running OS X within VMWare

I did some googling and answered my own question.  Here's one of the better "how to" guides:
http://wiki.osx86pro...ex.php/Vmware_how_to

Note that this involves lots of quasi-legal steps (such as downloading an .ISO of OS X) and technically it is illegal to run OS X in this enviroment, but VMWare is negotiating with Apple so the future may look brighter.

At this point I'd be more inclined to pick up a used Mac on eBay for experimentation.

nontroppo

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2007, 05:00:24 PM »
Quote
Having said that I really hate the way the Mac deals with menus. I suppose you get used to it if you use it all the time but I think right clicking in a window for a context menu is a much more intutive and user firendly way of doing things
All OS X Apps have context menus, I believe they've been there since OS X first came out. The menu bar at the top is analagous to the App menu bar of Windows. It was years ago that Macs didn't utilise context menus.

Indeed Macbooks have the most fantastic way to right-click on any laptop I've used — instead of two buttons, you put two finger-tips on the trackpad and use the same button. This is ergonomically brilliant (*very fast* to move your left index finger a few millimeters, rather than your right hand centimeters to another button). Two fingers also scrolls, no need for those annoying Synaptics scroll zones (lugging finger tips to little marcated zones) or moving to extra scroll buttons. Actually, does anyone know if there are windows drivers to enable two-finger functions for Windows / Linux?

Quote
In all fairness I don't experience those problems under Windows XP. OK I have had occasional glitches to deal with - but usually it is my fault for installing some crappy bit of software that screws things up!
But this is the exact point. Count how many registry cleaners and special uninstaller apps there are. There is no clear demarcation of system / user / app preferences so crappy software, failed installs and the like can wreak havoc. In OS X and *nix there is no central registry that mixes the whole panoply of preferences for your whole machine from hardware to screensavers into one monolithic hive. There is a clear demarcation of where apps can install things (DLL hell anyone?); most applications are self-contained bundles you can drag around and they run wherever you put them (only a few Apps use system kexts which even then have a clearly defined folder and root access needed before install). And my preferences are simple XML files in my home folder. I can simply drag my home and Apps folder and I've migrated. How about this: I can boot just a generic pristine OS X system from an external harddrive, and use aliases to my existing home directory - in effect I can swap out my OS install with ease. This is just not possible with windows, an OS image is tied to the hardware.

Quote
As for malware - that is just a function of scale.

There are two responses to that:

1) There are substantial technical arguments why *nix systems are more secure than Windows up to XP. It wasn't just that 9x and NTx was a larger target, it afforded more attack vectors. Vista was substantially about plugging the holes. This argument was also made when for example comparing IEs pathetic security record against other browsers - "they are all as vulnerable but IE is more visible". Hogwash. There were many more attack vectors available in IE than there were in Opera. I am *not* saying there are no attack vectors, and some Mac users can be far too glib about security, but technical differences thanks to the BSD heritage do make substantial differences compared to windows up to XP.
2) *And* Macs are less visible targets, so it is even better  8)

-------------------------------------------

As a small technical followup my post above, I spoke about some of the benefits that integration of core OS X technologies bring. On this post about tagging I give a simple example of that:

http://www.donationc...69.msg82090#msg82090

By building unified OS X cocoa frameworks easily usable by any app, Apple (and the user) gains a whole heap of usability. This system is globally available and not proprietary, and the fact that Quicksilver can do tagging so effortlessly is what I meant when I suggested that the framework architecture allows an application to do so much more. Armando gave a suggestion for windows, tag2find, but he worried that the tagging there is proprietry and not even visible in Explorer, and he is right to be concerned.

Thought experiment: If FARR wanted to add tagging, what options are available to mouser; could it offer something as universal and elegant?
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 05:04:00 PM by nontroppo »

nontroppo

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Re: The worst thing about Macs
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2007, 05:47:00 PM »
But most importantly of all, Macs are really just one step away from being a Jedi weapon:

http://www.engadget....ns-to-buy-a-macbook/
http://isnoop.net/bl...-into-a-jedi-weapon/

May the force be with you...

[EDIT: or does it just confirm Mac users have more money than sense?]
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 05:54:30 PM by nontroppo »